A question for any legal experts or people who have had similar experiences.
We have a U-shaped reinforced concrete staircase (double turn without an intermediate landing) from the basement (at street level on the street side) up to the ground floor.
“Behind” the staircase is a window to let in more light in the stairwell, so the lights don’t have to be on during the day.
The window is fixed, meaning it is not designed to open (no handle or anything).
So far, so good. We recently considered installing a partially frosted glass pane to reduce visibility of the staircase from outside. At that point, we realized the glass would likely never be removable because the staircase extends all the way to the wall.
The question now is, is it considered a (hidden) defect if a windowpane cannot be replaced without either seriously damaging the staircase or chipping away part of the interior plaster and masonry?
This is not about the other glass for now, since you could use a film in the basement window. But I wonder who would cover the additional costs if the pane, for example, breaks at some point. As mentioned, the wall above the window would have to be partially opened up to pull the pane out upward.
Thank you very much for any answers, opinions, or possibly similar rulings or legal references...
We have a U-shaped reinforced concrete staircase (double turn without an intermediate landing) from the basement (at street level on the street side) up to the ground floor.
“Behind” the staircase is a window to let in more light in the stairwell, so the lights don’t have to be on during the day.
The window is fixed, meaning it is not designed to open (no handle or anything).
So far, so good. We recently considered installing a partially frosted glass pane to reduce visibility of the staircase from outside. At that point, we realized the glass would likely never be removable because the staircase extends all the way to the wall.
The question now is, is it considered a (hidden) defect if a windowpane cannot be replaced without either seriously damaging the staircase or chipping away part of the interior plaster and masonry?
This is not about the other glass for now, since you could use a film in the basement window. But I wonder who would cover the additional costs if the pane, for example, breaks at some point. As mentioned, the wall above the window would have to be partially opened up to pull the pane out upward.
Thank you very much for any answers, opinions, or possibly similar rulings or legal references...
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Peanuts747 Mar 2016 11:52Bauexperte schrieb:
Who says?
Regards, BauexperteA customer-oriented service employee of the construction company who is involved in window planning (unfortunately not in my case).
It is clear that you can (almost) manage everything somehow, but a slightly different design could probably have avoided this potential future problem.
And again, it’s not about the staircase being in front of the window, making it impossible to open or cleaning a bit tricky!
I just think it’s not a great planning achievement if replacing the glass would cost around 1000€ instead of maybe 200€ (according to the company employee who also advised us to check whether this could be a hidden defect...).
That’s why I asked for opinions or experiences.
Normally, if anything happens, it would more likely be something like children playing kicking a ball through the glass, and insurance would cover it...
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alter002912 Apr 2016 11:43I don’t think the basic idea is necessarily wrong, and I get the impression that the discussion is driven more by emotions than facts. We are currently still planning our house, meaning we are waiting for the building permit / planning permission, and in our case, it’s similar. We also planned a window like that in the stairwell, and even though we put a lot of thought into the planning, we didn’t consider that the glass could break and would need to be replaced. Therefore, I find the initial question appropriate and would also regard it as a planning mistake. However, I am not a professional and cannot precisely define what constitutes a planning error.
Since I was assigned an architect by my general contractor, whom I would describe as somewhat lacking in insight, it doesn’t surprise me that he didn’t point out this possibility to us. And because enough mistakes have happened with him, I have now asked how the replacement of this window pane would be handled in case of damage, trying to be polite in my inquiry even though I consider him a bit of an idiot. Personally, I found this post extremely helpful, which is, after all, more or less the purpose of a forum like this.
Since I was assigned an architect by my general contractor, whom I would describe as somewhat lacking in insight, it doesn’t surprise me that he didn’t point out this possibility to us. And because enough mistakes have happened with him, I have now asked how the replacement of this window pane would be handled in case of damage, trying to be polite in my inquiry even though I consider him a bit of an idiot. Personally, I found this post extremely helpful, which is, after all, more or less the purpose of a forum like this.
Honestly, I don’t see any defect there either. Otherwise, anyone who installs water or electrical lines concealed within walls would have to warn you that, in case of replacement, the repair costs are much higher than for surface-mounted pipes. We can keep going with that logic. I have rarely seen basements where installing a buffer tank after 20 years was trouble-free. Should the planner also advise making the doors larger? There are so many things like that. A homeowner simply has to think ahead, too. Sometimes something gets overlooked, but that’s just how it is!
Look at it this way: you initially have a warranty. If a defect occurs with the window during that time and it needs to be replaced, that’s not your concern. If you later want to replace it, or if the children break it, you will have to spend €1000 (around $1100) instead of just €200 (around $220) to replace it. By accepting the work, you have consciously or unconsciously confirmed that this is exactly what you want.
Look at it this way: you initially have a warranty. If a defect occurs with the window during that time and it needs to be replaced, that’s not your concern. If you later want to replace it, or if the children break it, you will have to spend €1000 (around $1100) instead of just €200 (around $220) to replace it. By accepting the work, you have consciously or unconsciously confirmed that this is exactly what you want.
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Peanuts7412 Apr 2016 13:05PhiTh schrieb:
Honestly, I don’t see this as a defect either. Otherwise, anyone who installs water or electrical lines concealed in walls would have to warn that repairs will be much more expensive than with surface-mounted pipes. We could keep going with that logic. I’ve rarely seen a basement where installing a buffer tank after 20 years wasn’t a problem. Should the planner also advise making the doors larger? There are so many factors. A homeowner just needs to think ahead. Sometimes things slip through, but that’s just how it is!
Look at it this way: initially, you have a warranty. If a defect occurs with the window during that time and it needs to be replaced, that’s not your problem. After the warranty period, or if the kids break it, you’ll have to pay around 1000€ instead of just 200€ to replace it. By accepting the work, you have consciously or unconsciously confirmed that you want it exactly as is.Well, some things are obvious. For example, it’s clear that a 120cm (47 inches) wide oil tank won’t fit through a 90cm (35 inches) door. But if you’ve never installed a window before, it’s hard to estimate (just from the plans!) whether or how you can replace a pane later on. In any case, in 90% of cases it would probably be covered by insurance anyway...
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alter002912 Apr 2016 13:06If the architect points out that replacing a glass pane in this design could be costly, and I still prefer it that way for aesthetic reasons, that may be acceptable. On the other hand, it is also his responsibility, if I’m not mistaken, to suggest more cost-effective solutions. For example, the window could be divided. I have seen that before, and it did not look bad at all. It was probably done that way for exactly this reason.
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alter002912 Apr 2016 13:08The comparison with concealed wiring is flawed anyway and, in my opinion, quite far-fetched; maybe it was meant to be original. In reality, replacing a window pane will happen much more often than replacing a water pipe.
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