I am currently deciding between uPVC and wood-aluminum windows with my preferred house manufacturer.
My personal impression has been that uPVC windows tend to feel “cheap,” so I have always said I prefer wood-aluminum windows (actually pure aluminum would be ideal, but unfortunately that’s not an option). Of course, I have now done some research here in the forum on this topic, and as expected, it turns out there are high-quality uPVC windows as well as lower-quality wood-aluminum ones. Unfortunately, with my house manufacturer (a prefabricated house), the selection is limited—I don’t want to exclude windows from their package—but I can only choose between single-color uPVC, two-tone uPVC, and wood-aluminum. The additional cost from standard single-color to two-tone uPVC is about €3,500 (€3,500), and to wood-aluminum about €7,500 (€7,500), both calculated relative to single-color uPVC. I don’t yet know the general price range of the standard windows, but maybe I can find out by asking what happens if I exclude the windows from the scope of work.
That’s the background of my situation. The main point of this thread, however, is how a layperson can recognize the value (or quality) of these windows. I have read here that the value generally correlates with price as follows:
The problem is that, as I said, I do not know the price, so these surcharges are not very helpful. I have also learned that when it comes to wood-aluminum, windows with welded corners on the aluminum cladding tend to be cheaper (due to the different thermal expansion coefficients of wood and aluminum), whereas corners that are mechanically joined or not welded usually indicate better quality windows. I can watch for this, but I haven’t found much more information, so here is my question:
How can I recognize whether the windows are good quality without knowing the price?
As mentioned, I am a layperson. I cannot immediately tell whether uPVC is low quality, and I have no experience with wood at all. I can’t identify wood species by grain or similar features, and I don’t understand terms like softwood or hardwood (though I could ask about that, so a list of good and bad wood types might be helpful).
One more question: If the lower-quality wood-aluminum windows (according to the list above) are a little more expensive than the better-quality uPVC ones, does that automatically mean the wood-aluminum windows are at least a tiny bit better?
I’d also like to briefly explain why I used the word “cheap” at the start of this post. This is not meant to sound derogatory—I simply feel that way when using these windows in most cases, even if it may not be accurate. Over the last few months, I made it a point to open windows in many show homes (and there are quite a few in such a show village). Most of the time, my impression was confirmed (again, this may be wrong, but it is my feeling) that uPVC windows somehow feel “cheap.” I did notice some differences, for example that some uPVC windows noticeably warped when opened (which is immediately noticeable and creates a very uneasy feeling :eek 🙂, although most did not. I want to be clear that I have never noticed this warping in any pure aluminum or wood-aluminum windows. Both of those always felt (how should I put it?) more solid and higher quality; nothing warped, and they generally opened and closed more heavily, giving a solid impression. This was especially noticeable with lift-and-slide doors, with no exceptions. The uPVC doors were easy to identify by prying, while every well-feeling door was exclusively pure aluminum or wood-aluminum.
Some might consider this a very superficial opinion, but that is just how I feel. As I said, I don’t have experience with wood; we would also want the wood-aluminum windows painted white on the inside, preferably with no visible grain. The extra cost is actually worth it for me, considering that we want two-tone windows anyway, so for us it would be “only” about €4,000 (€4,000) extra. BUT feeling alone is not everything—I would of course like to have the better windows and lift-and-slide doors (not knowing about insulation value, durability, etc.) so I won’t regret it in 20 years, since I expect to build only once in my life.
I hope I have expressed myself clearly and understandably… We are going to visit the factory next week, and I would like to be better informed on this topic. The windows will be purchased from our house manufacturer directly.
Best regards
Dany250
My personal impression has been that uPVC windows tend to feel “cheap,” so I have always said I prefer wood-aluminum windows (actually pure aluminum would be ideal, but unfortunately that’s not an option). Of course, I have now done some research here in the forum on this topic, and as expected, it turns out there are high-quality uPVC windows as well as lower-quality wood-aluminum ones. Unfortunately, with my house manufacturer (a prefabricated house), the selection is limited—I don’t want to exclude windows from their package—but I can only choose between single-color uPVC, two-tone uPVC, and wood-aluminum. The additional cost from standard single-color to two-tone uPVC is about €3,500 (€3,500), and to wood-aluminum about €7,500 (€7,500), both calculated relative to single-color uPVC. I don’t yet know the general price range of the standard windows, but maybe I can find out by asking what happens if I exclude the windows from the scope of work.
That’s the background of my situation. The main point of this thread, however, is how a layperson can recognize the value (or quality) of these windows. I have read here that the value generally correlates with price as follows:
- Wood-aluminum (140) in good quality should be priced above pure aluminum (120)
- Pure aluminum (120) above high-quality uPVC (100)
- And high-quality uPVC (100) above low-quality uPVC (80) (;))
- Low-quality wood-aluminum (105) slightly above good uPVC (100)
The problem is that, as I said, I do not know the price, so these surcharges are not very helpful. I have also learned that when it comes to wood-aluminum, windows with welded corners on the aluminum cladding tend to be cheaper (due to the different thermal expansion coefficients of wood and aluminum), whereas corners that are mechanically joined or not welded usually indicate better quality windows. I can watch for this, but I haven’t found much more information, so here is my question:
How can I recognize whether the windows are good quality without knowing the price?
As mentioned, I am a layperson. I cannot immediately tell whether uPVC is low quality, and I have no experience with wood at all. I can’t identify wood species by grain or similar features, and I don’t understand terms like softwood or hardwood (though I could ask about that, so a list of good and bad wood types might be helpful).
One more question: If the lower-quality wood-aluminum windows (according to the list above) are a little more expensive than the better-quality uPVC ones, does that automatically mean the wood-aluminum windows are at least a tiny bit better?
I’d also like to briefly explain why I used the word “cheap” at the start of this post. This is not meant to sound derogatory—I simply feel that way when using these windows in most cases, even if it may not be accurate. Over the last few months, I made it a point to open windows in many show homes (and there are quite a few in such a show village). Most of the time, my impression was confirmed (again, this may be wrong, but it is my feeling) that uPVC windows somehow feel “cheap.” I did notice some differences, for example that some uPVC windows noticeably warped when opened (which is immediately noticeable and creates a very uneasy feeling :eek 🙂, although most did not. I want to be clear that I have never noticed this warping in any pure aluminum or wood-aluminum windows. Both of those always felt (how should I put it?) more solid and higher quality; nothing warped, and they generally opened and closed more heavily, giving a solid impression. This was especially noticeable with lift-and-slide doors, with no exceptions. The uPVC doors were easy to identify by prying, while every well-feeling door was exclusively pure aluminum or wood-aluminum.
Some might consider this a very superficial opinion, but that is just how I feel. As I said, I don’t have experience with wood; we would also want the wood-aluminum windows painted white on the inside, preferably with no visible grain. The extra cost is actually worth it for me, considering that we want two-tone windows anyway, so for us it would be “only” about €4,000 (€4,000) extra. BUT feeling alone is not everything—I would of course like to have the better windows and lift-and-slide doors (not knowing about insulation value, durability, etc.) so I won’t regret it in 20 years, since I expect to build only once in my life.
I hope I have expressed myself clearly and understandably… We are going to visit the factory next week, and I would like to be better informed on this topic. The windows will be purchased from our house manufacturer directly.
Best regards
Dany250
Besides, there are also hybrids made from plastic windows with metal or wooden cores.
The problem is always the quality of the plastic and how it is processed.
I have plastic windows from around 1975 here that have shown no issues so far.
They might be slightly yellowed (UV-related issue).
But there are also other plastic components here that are about 15 years old, exposed to the weather, and now even show occasional cracks (UV brittle).
Unfortunately, I haven’t found clear criteria to distinguish these when buying.
Sadly, it doesn’t automatically apply that expensive means good quality.
The problem is always the quality of the plastic and how it is processed.
I have plastic windows from around 1975 here that have shown no issues so far.
They might be slightly yellowed (UV-related issue).
But there are also other plastic components here that are about 15 years old, exposed to the weather, and now even show occasional cracks (UV brittle).
Unfortunately, I haven’t found clear criteria to distinguish these when buying.
Sadly, it doesn’t automatically apply that expensive means good quality.
Dany250 schrieb:
Unfortunately, I (still) don’t know the general price range for standard windows, but maybe I can find out by asking what happens if I remove the windows from the scope of work(?).This is strongly discouraged, especially with prefabricated houses.Dany250 schrieb:
It was really noticeable with the lift-and-slide doors—there were no exceptions. The plastic doors could be identified just by trying to pry them open; all doors that felt solid were consistently made of pure aluminum or wood-aluminum.Yes, but with prefabricated houses, you can only follow my basic advice to choose the aluminum elements if the manufacturer actually offers them in their program.Dany250 schrieb:
To give you some background on my situation: the point of this thread, however, is how a layperson can recognize the value (or quality) of windows. I’ve read here that the value can be roughly determined by price in the following order:
- Wood-aluminum (140) in good quality should be priced above pure aluminum (120)
- Pure aluminum (120) above good plastic (100)
- Good plastic (100) above poor plastic (80) (;))
- Poor wood-aluminum (105) slightly above good plastic (100)
(thanks to 11ant, I hope I got that right 🙂).Well, that’s enough for a “B” grade on homework 🙂 I worked in this field and still can only tell by having the right experience (and glasses, being over 50). As a layperson, you cannot reliably identify good windows at all, but you can spot the bad ones by price, because wood-aluminum windows being cheaper than pure aluminum always means they are lower quality: even large buyer discounts alone can’t explain that difference the wrong way around.Dany250 schrieb:
Of course, I’d like to have better windows and lift-and-slide doors (no idea about insulation values, durability, etc.) so I won’t regret it in 20 years; I assume I’ll only build once in my life.I don’t believe you will build only once. I estimate about forty years’ lifespan for aluminum and about fifteen years for PVC windows (not until they become completely unusable, but until you definitely feel the urge to replace them). We have installed aluminum windows not only in new buildings, so I know how old previous windows were ;-)Dany250 schrieb:
I am facing the decision of choosing between plastic and wood-aluminum windows with my preferred home builder.
[...] I hope I was clear and understandable… We are allowed to visit the factory next week, and I’d like to be better informed on the topic. However, even our builder only purchases the windows.From my impression, you are not quite ready to decide yet. I definitely wouldn’t have time to accompany you next week—but take the opportunity anyway (you are inexperienced enough to benefit from it). More via PM 🙂https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
Yes, but with a "prefabricated" house, you can only really follow my basic advice to choose aluminum frame elements if the house manufacturer actually offers them in their portfolio. Then, wood-aluminum is actually preferable to plastic here, right? So that would be a plus.
11ant schrieb:
Well, that’s enough for a "B" in the homework review. I’m very glad to hear that 🙂, there have always been teachers for whom the best you could get was a B.
11ant schrieb:
I used to work in this field and still can only recognize quality with the right glasses (being over 50). As a layperson, you really can’t reliably tell the good ones apart, but you can identify the bad ones by price, since wood-aluminum, being cheaper than pure aluminum, must always be of lower quality; even bulk buyer discounts alone couldn’t explain the difference going the wrong way. That’s really unfortunate and basically already answers my main question.
11ant schrieb:
I don’t believe this will be your last time building. You never really know for sure, I’m just hoping it is 🙂.
11ant schrieb:
I estimate around forty years for aluminum and fifteen years for PVC (not until complete failure, but until you strongly feel the need to replace them). Where would you place wood-aluminum on this timescale (even if it’s more the lower-end options)?
11ant schrieb:
From my impression, you’re not ready to decide yet. That’s absolutely true, my amateur choice of priority is based only on personal feeling when opening the windows. I know quality shouldn't be assessed like that... But my gut feeling with sliding doors definitely says: definitely wood-aluminum!
11ant schrieb:
I certainly wouldn’t have time to accompany you next week. I didn’t realize that was even an option!?
11ant schrieb:
- but do take the opportunity anyway (you’re inexperienced enough to definitely learn something). That sounds a bit lofty 😉, but of course I’ll take the chance—I’m very eager to learn and have always loved factory tours in any field.
11ant schrieb:
More via private message. Oh 11ant, I still can’t send private messages even now; after how many posts does that become possible?
But I’m still waiting on a message from you via another channel as well 😉.
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In the end, it’s obviously not very reassuring for anyone to know that even an expert can barely tell by appearance whether windows are high quality or lower quality.
Could someone maybe list the most common types of wood used in window construction, both good (probably hardwoods) and less good (probably softwoods)?
Here is a summary without quoting snippets:
I see more chance in a later rebuild, so look forward to that!
To place wood-aluminum windows on the replacement timeline, I would have to speculate wildly since I lack experience: what we replaced were PVC and older aluminum; the share of wood-aluminum was within the margin of error ;-)
My doubts about your readiness to decide were not about the windows themselves, but overall I still see you far from being ready to sign off on building your house.
And yes, of course, I can generally be “booked” to accompany such appointments. By PN I meant the PPN channel—you have found that path now. However, I still have to save the world briefly before answering my 148,237 emails—only in the song does it happen the other way around ;-)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I see more chance in a later rebuild, so look forward to that!
To place wood-aluminum windows on the replacement timeline, I would have to speculate wildly since I lack experience: what we replaced were PVC and older aluminum; the share of wood-aluminum was within the margin of error ;-)
My doubts about your readiness to decide were not about the windows themselves, but overall I still see you far from being ready to sign off on building your house.
And yes, of course, I can generally be “booked” to accompany such appointments. By PN I meant the PPN channel—you have found that path now. However, I still have to save the world briefly before answering my 148,237 emails—only in the song does it happen the other way around ;-)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
Tell us about it – preferably in the moderated experiences section…All in good time. Before I share my experiences there, I first need to ask others about theirs...Similar topics