I am currently deciding between uPVC and wood-aluminum windows with my preferred house manufacturer.
My personal impression has been that uPVC windows tend to feel “cheap,” so I have always said I prefer wood-aluminum windows (actually pure aluminum would be ideal, but unfortunately that’s not an option). Of course, I have now done some research here in the forum on this topic, and as expected, it turns out there are high-quality uPVC windows as well as lower-quality wood-aluminum ones. Unfortunately, with my house manufacturer (a prefabricated house), the selection is limited—I don’t want to exclude windows from their package—but I can only choose between single-color uPVC, two-tone uPVC, and wood-aluminum. The additional cost from standard single-color to two-tone uPVC is about €3,500 (€3,500), and to wood-aluminum about €7,500 (€7,500), both calculated relative to single-color uPVC. I don’t yet know the general price range of the standard windows, but maybe I can find out by asking what happens if I exclude the windows from the scope of work.
That’s the background of my situation. The main point of this thread, however, is how a layperson can recognize the value (or quality) of these windows. I have read here that the value generally correlates with price as follows:
The problem is that, as I said, I do not know the price, so these surcharges are not very helpful. I have also learned that when it comes to wood-aluminum, windows with welded corners on the aluminum cladding tend to be cheaper (due to the different thermal expansion coefficients of wood and aluminum), whereas corners that are mechanically joined or not welded usually indicate better quality windows. I can watch for this, but I haven’t found much more information, so here is my question:
How can I recognize whether the windows are good quality without knowing the price?
As mentioned, I am a layperson. I cannot immediately tell whether uPVC is low quality, and I have no experience with wood at all. I can’t identify wood species by grain or similar features, and I don’t understand terms like softwood or hardwood (though I could ask about that, so a list of good and bad wood types might be helpful).
One more question: If the lower-quality wood-aluminum windows (according to the list above) are a little more expensive than the better-quality uPVC ones, does that automatically mean the wood-aluminum windows are at least a tiny bit better?
I’d also like to briefly explain why I used the word “cheap” at the start of this post. This is not meant to sound derogatory—I simply feel that way when using these windows in most cases, even if it may not be accurate. Over the last few months, I made it a point to open windows in many show homes (and there are quite a few in such a show village). Most of the time, my impression was confirmed (again, this may be wrong, but it is my feeling) that uPVC windows somehow feel “cheap.” I did notice some differences, for example that some uPVC windows noticeably warped when opened (which is immediately noticeable and creates a very uneasy feeling :eek 🙂, although most did not. I want to be clear that I have never noticed this warping in any pure aluminum or wood-aluminum windows. Both of those always felt (how should I put it?) more solid and higher quality; nothing warped, and they generally opened and closed more heavily, giving a solid impression. This was especially noticeable with lift-and-slide doors, with no exceptions. The uPVC doors were easy to identify by prying, while every well-feeling door was exclusively pure aluminum or wood-aluminum.
Some might consider this a very superficial opinion, but that is just how I feel. As I said, I don’t have experience with wood; we would also want the wood-aluminum windows painted white on the inside, preferably with no visible grain. The extra cost is actually worth it for me, considering that we want two-tone windows anyway, so for us it would be “only” about €4,000 (€4,000) extra. BUT feeling alone is not everything—I would of course like to have the better windows and lift-and-slide doors (not knowing about insulation value, durability, etc.) so I won’t regret it in 20 years, since I expect to build only once in my life.
I hope I have expressed myself clearly and understandably… We are going to visit the factory next week, and I would like to be better informed on this topic. The windows will be purchased from our house manufacturer directly.
Best regards
Dany250
My personal impression has been that uPVC windows tend to feel “cheap,” so I have always said I prefer wood-aluminum windows (actually pure aluminum would be ideal, but unfortunately that’s not an option). Of course, I have now done some research here in the forum on this topic, and as expected, it turns out there are high-quality uPVC windows as well as lower-quality wood-aluminum ones. Unfortunately, with my house manufacturer (a prefabricated house), the selection is limited—I don’t want to exclude windows from their package—but I can only choose between single-color uPVC, two-tone uPVC, and wood-aluminum. The additional cost from standard single-color to two-tone uPVC is about €3,500 (€3,500), and to wood-aluminum about €7,500 (€7,500), both calculated relative to single-color uPVC. I don’t yet know the general price range of the standard windows, but maybe I can find out by asking what happens if I exclude the windows from the scope of work.
That’s the background of my situation. The main point of this thread, however, is how a layperson can recognize the value (or quality) of these windows. I have read here that the value generally correlates with price as follows:
- Wood-aluminum (140) in good quality should be priced above pure aluminum (120)
- Pure aluminum (120) above high-quality uPVC (100)
- And high-quality uPVC (100) above low-quality uPVC (80) (;))
- Low-quality wood-aluminum (105) slightly above good uPVC (100)
The problem is that, as I said, I do not know the price, so these surcharges are not very helpful. I have also learned that when it comes to wood-aluminum, windows with welded corners on the aluminum cladding tend to be cheaper (due to the different thermal expansion coefficients of wood and aluminum), whereas corners that are mechanically joined or not welded usually indicate better quality windows. I can watch for this, but I haven’t found much more information, so here is my question:
How can I recognize whether the windows are good quality without knowing the price?
As mentioned, I am a layperson. I cannot immediately tell whether uPVC is low quality, and I have no experience with wood at all. I can’t identify wood species by grain or similar features, and I don’t understand terms like softwood or hardwood (though I could ask about that, so a list of good and bad wood types might be helpful).
One more question: If the lower-quality wood-aluminum windows (according to the list above) are a little more expensive than the better-quality uPVC ones, does that automatically mean the wood-aluminum windows are at least a tiny bit better?
I’d also like to briefly explain why I used the word “cheap” at the start of this post. This is not meant to sound derogatory—I simply feel that way when using these windows in most cases, even if it may not be accurate. Over the last few months, I made it a point to open windows in many show homes (and there are quite a few in such a show village). Most of the time, my impression was confirmed (again, this may be wrong, but it is my feeling) that uPVC windows somehow feel “cheap.” I did notice some differences, for example that some uPVC windows noticeably warped when opened (which is immediately noticeable and creates a very uneasy feeling :eek 🙂, although most did not. I want to be clear that I have never noticed this warping in any pure aluminum or wood-aluminum windows. Both of those always felt (how should I put it?) more solid and higher quality; nothing warped, and they generally opened and closed more heavily, giving a solid impression. This was especially noticeable with lift-and-slide doors, with no exceptions. The uPVC doors were easy to identify by prying, while every well-feeling door was exclusively pure aluminum or wood-aluminum.
Some might consider this a very superficial opinion, but that is just how I feel. As I said, I don’t have experience with wood; we would also want the wood-aluminum windows painted white on the inside, preferably with no visible grain. The extra cost is actually worth it for me, considering that we want two-tone windows anyway, so for us it would be “only” about €4,000 (€4,000) extra. BUT feeling alone is not everything—I would of course like to have the better windows and lift-and-slide doors (not knowing about insulation value, durability, etc.) so I won’t regret it in 20 years, since I expect to build only once in my life.
I hope I have expressed myself clearly and understandably… We are going to visit the factory next week, and I would like to be better informed on this topic. The windows will be purchased from our house manufacturer directly.
Best regards
Dany250
So, yesterday we spontaneously decided to visit the third show home from our preferred homebuilder. It was a good decision since this one actually had wood-aluminum windows installed, and they were even white on the inside, just as we originally WANTED.
Please take a look at this. I have to say, the quality didn’t really impress us that much. The aluminum cover strips don’t seem fully “welded,” but there isn’t much gap either.
The house was built in 2012, so it’s 9 years old now, and while that’s understandable, I actually plan to live in my house for a much longer time. Some of the handles even had a bit of play. There were also cracks visible at the interior corners 😱. That wouldn’t bother us (especially since we decided yesterday to have the windows both inside and outside in black, not anthracite), but if this is more a sign of “not good” quality, that would be quite disappointing.
We also asked the salesman there who the window manufacturer is. So, the wood-aluminum windows come from a smaller company near the homebuilder called “Fenster Braun.” Does anyone know this brand? Their website doesn’t provide much information 😕. The plastic windows come from a company not far from the homebuilder called “Gugelfuss.” Their website looks a bit more polished, but that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
I don’t know either company, so I’d appreciate your feedback here.
We still tend to prefer the wood-aluminum windows (which might handle the desired black color better over time!?), but as I wrote in the original post, there isn’t a solid reason for this preference yet.
Please take a look at this. I have to say, the quality didn’t really impress us that much. The aluminum cover strips don’t seem fully “welded,” but there isn’t much gap either.
The house was built in 2012, so it’s 9 years old now, and while that’s understandable, I actually plan to live in my house for a much longer time. Some of the handles even had a bit of play. There were also cracks visible at the interior corners 😱. That wouldn’t bother us (especially since we decided yesterday to have the windows both inside and outside in black, not anthracite), but if this is more a sign of “not good” quality, that would be quite disappointing.
We also asked the salesman there who the window manufacturer is. So, the wood-aluminum windows come from a smaller company near the homebuilder called “Fenster Braun.” Does anyone know this brand? Their website doesn’t provide much information 😕. The plastic windows come from a company not far from the homebuilder called “Gugelfuss.” Their website looks a bit more polished, but that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
I don’t know either company, so I’d appreciate your feedback here.
We still tend to prefer the wood-aluminum windows (which might handle the desired black color better over time!?), but as I wrote in the original post, there isn’t a solid reason for this preference yet.
Dany250 schrieb:
So, yesterday we spontaneously decided to visit the third model home from our preferred home builder. It was a good decision because this one actually had wood-aluminum windows installed, and even white on the inside, just as we originally WANTED. [...] We still tend to prefer the wood-aluminum windows (which maybe the desired black color won’t affect as much over time!?), How does the change from white to black happen so quickly? – Pussi, uh, Mr. Winkelmann recommends a fresh stone gray 🙂
Dany250 schrieb:
Please take a look at this. I have to say, the quality didn’t exactly blow us away. The aluminum cover strips don’t seem to be really “welded,” but there isn’t much gap either.
The house was built in 2012; sure, that’s already 9 years, yet I actually plan to live in my house much longer. Some of the handles were even a bit loose. The windows look quite decent. Of course, after nine years the handles will feel a bit loose if even every twentieth visitor is testing the quality. Model homes simply receive more “traffic” than a regular home.
Dany250 schrieb:
We also asked the salesperson who manufactures the windows there. The wood-aluminum windows come from a smaller company near the home builder called “Fenster Braun.” Does anyone know this brand? Unfortunately, their website doesn’t provide much information 😕. The vinyl windows come from a company also close to the builder called “Gugelfuss.” Their website looks sleeker but that doesn’t necessarily mean much.
I don’t know either company, so I would appreciate your feedback here. Most window manufacturers don’t actually produce the windows themselves (and back then, as a manufacturer, we would have been better off not selling directly to end customers). In automotive manufacturing, this is called “badge engineering,” when a company puts its own brand labels on a pre-made product. All the certifications like ISO, RAL, and Rosenheim are too costly for a small player to handle. It’s usually Schüco, Kömmerling, or similar brands inside, even if the label says “Unknown brand.” If the same window maker still supplies your favorite builder today, they probably aren’t bad at all.
Dany250 schrieb:
Why do you think these aren’t their houses? That would be a bit harsh... I have already explained this in “When model homes lie”:
11ant, member: 32750 schrieb:
Plots for model home exhibitions from several providers are not real parcels but more like trade fair stands. If a home builder sells their entire business or just the representation at this location, the corresponding model homes are often not demolished but leased by the exhibition operator to another builder. Also, a supplier can be changed without any notice in the model home. The construction specifications often name a specific manufacturer followed by “or equivalent.”
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Dany250 schrieb:
We still tend to prefer the wood-aluminum windows (which perhaps the desired black color won’t affect as much over time!?), but as mentioned in the original post, that’s not really based on anything concrete.Then just go with those! If you choose different windows now, you’ll regret it later – regardless of what is considered more premium. What is premium is very subjective, and most people install what they can afford and trust.
Windows from reputable manufacturers are always a good choice: they all work well. You can replace or adjust the handles, as well as the locks and catches. So, bottom line: choose what you can afford and trust!
11ant schrieb:
How does the change from white to black happen? - Pussi, uh, Mr. Winkelmann recommends a fresh stone gray You speak in riddles as usual… Winkelmann? Fresh stone gray?
Deep black, because we had imagined black accents a long time ago (fixtures, railings, etc.). Since we have a lot of white and relatively little decoration, black windows probably wouldn’t feel too heavy, but rather provide the right contrast (hopefully)!? With black, hopefully the cracks aren’t as visible either :-).
The blinds are also planned to be black (as mentioned, not anthracite).
11ant schrieb:
The windows look quite neat. That actually makes me very happy!!
Did you look at all the pictures? The cracks in the white corners? The brand of the fittings? Is all of that any good?
ypg schrieb:
Then just take those! Thank you! Your encouragement means so much, considering all the decisions we (one) have to make.
I think if something here were completely out of line, a legitimate objection would also arise!?
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