ᐅ Planned Throttling of Electric Vehicle Chargers and Heat Pumps
Created on: 15 Mar 2023 10:16
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sub-xero
Hello dear photovoltaic enthusiasts,
Like many others, I had my new build equipped one year ago with a photovoltaic system, battery storage, heat pump, and electric vehicle charger. Everything is running to my highest satisfaction, and on average over the year, I am about 75% self-sufficient (including electricity for the heat pump).
Now, the politicians in our so-called banana republic Germany have come up with the brilliant idea to throttle the power supply for heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers starting in 2024. The reason is that our power grids would be completely overloaded with the expected development (electric cars and heat pumps). I understand that the promotion of electric vehicles and heat pumps does not fit well with the unplanned and poorly thought-out implementation of renewable energy, and therefore, shortages are likely to occur.
In this context, I am interested in how this throttling would actually be implemented in practice. Here are a few questions for open discussion:
The electricity I draw from the grid cannot be divided into "electricity for the EV charger," "electricity for the heat pump," "electricity for the household," etc. It is a total amount of X kW. Statements like:
According to the concept of the Federal Network Agency, if a shortage threatens, for example, EV chargers or heat pumps should be throttled down to a power of 3.7 kilowatts to prevent an overload.
are, in my view, completely unrealistic. The devices are not supplied individually from the grid. In a worst-case scenario, there would then be no electricity left for the freezer or the computer. That is obviously not acceptable.
Grid operators want to be able to "unilaterally and indefinitely" throttle devices in case of an impending grid overload. The planned regulation applies only to households that have installed, for example, an EV charger or a heat pump. The household itself would remain unaffected by a possible short-term dimming. The refrigerator, washing machine, and internet would continue to operate as usual.
How is this supposed to work technically?
In any case, the usefulness of installing heat pumps in houses without photovoltaic systems is questionable.
If private EV chargers are throttled, the trend toward e-mobility in Germany will definitely be further hindered. (Charging at 3.7 kW is possible and sufficient in many cases, but firstly, the power loss is relatively high, and secondly, in some situations, one wants to be able to charge faster with 11 kW.)
Like many others, I had my new build equipped one year ago with a photovoltaic system, battery storage, heat pump, and electric vehicle charger. Everything is running to my highest satisfaction, and on average over the year, I am about 75% self-sufficient (including electricity for the heat pump).
Now, the politicians in our so-called banana republic Germany have come up with the brilliant idea to throttle the power supply for heat pumps and electric vehicle chargers starting in 2024. The reason is that our power grids would be completely overloaded with the expected development (electric cars and heat pumps). I understand that the promotion of electric vehicles and heat pumps does not fit well with the unplanned and poorly thought-out implementation of renewable energy, and therefore, shortages are likely to occur.
In this context, I am interested in how this throttling would actually be implemented in practice. Here are a few questions for open discussion:
The electricity I draw from the grid cannot be divided into "electricity for the EV charger," "electricity for the heat pump," "electricity for the household," etc. It is a total amount of X kW. Statements like:
According to the concept of the Federal Network Agency, if a shortage threatens, for example, EV chargers or heat pumps should be throttled down to a power of 3.7 kilowatts to prevent an overload.
are, in my view, completely unrealistic. The devices are not supplied individually from the grid. In a worst-case scenario, there would then be no electricity left for the freezer or the computer. That is obviously not acceptable.
Grid operators want to be able to "unilaterally and indefinitely" throttle devices in case of an impending grid overload. The planned regulation applies only to households that have installed, for example, an EV charger or a heat pump. The household itself would remain unaffected by a possible short-term dimming. The refrigerator, washing machine, and internet would continue to operate as usual.
How is this supposed to work technically?
In any case, the usefulness of installing heat pumps in houses without photovoltaic systems is questionable.
If private EV chargers are throttled, the trend toward e-mobility in Germany will definitely be further hindered. (Charging at 3.7 kW is possible and sufficient in many cases, but firstly, the power loss is relatively high, and secondly, in some situations, one wants to be able to charge faster with 11 kW.)
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xMisterDx7 Apr 2023 00:5416 kW is an interesting figure. That would be 3x230V × 23.1A. Such a circuit breaker doesn’t exist; I know of 20A and 25A. So, either 13.8 kW or 17.2 kW.
I have 3x50A in the main distribution board at home. With an application, 3x63A would also have been possible—my father-in-law has that.
That amounts to about 35 kW or 44 kW.
No one really needs that, unless you want to run an instantaneous water heater in addition to a heat pump, so you can fill the bathtub with warm water before it cools down again.
I have 3x50A in the main distribution board at home. With an application, 3x63A would also have been possible—my father-in-law has that.
That amounts to about 35 kW or 44 kW.
No one really needs that, unless you want to run an instantaneous water heater in addition to a heat pump, so you can fill the bathtub with warm water before it cools down again.
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Bausparfuchs7 Apr 2023 22:22This will not collapse. We simply buy Czech nuclear power and Polish coal-generated electricity, and cover the rest with gas 😉
A variable tariff is not economically attractive in this context.
As you can clearly see live on the Netzfrequenz website, there were massive disturbances in the grid frequency at the end of March. An unusually high number of interventions were necessary to stabilize the frequency. The German power grids were already reaching their limits as fluctuating cloud cover caused photovoltaic systems to swing between zero and their maximum feed-in values. It doesn’t seem to be running very stably.
Once the nuclear power plants are shut down from the end of next week, it will become even more critical.
Too much electricity is just as problematic as too little, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain and control the grid frequency at 50 Hz. When the frequency rises or falls, either the power suppliers or the consumers are disconnected.
As I predicted, the limiting factor now and going forward will be the power grids.
A variable tariff is not economically attractive in this context.
As you can clearly see live on the Netzfrequenz website, there were massive disturbances in the grid frequency at the end of March. An unusually high number of interventions were necessary to stabilize the frequency. The German power grids were already reaching their limits as fluctuating cloud cover caused photovoltaic systems to swing between zero and their maximum feed-in values. It doesn’t seem to be running very stably.
Once the nuclear power plants are shut down from the end of next week, it will become even more critical.
Too much electricity is just as problematic as too little, and it is becoming increasingly difficult to maintain and control the grid frequency at 50 Hz. When the frequency rises or falls, either the power suppliers or the consumers are disconnected.
As I predicted, the limiting factor now and going forward will be the power grids.
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xMisterDx8 Apr 2023 01:58Yes. An energy supply based solely on solar and wind requires storage. That is beyond question.
Most energy is needed in Germany during winter, when unfortunately sunlight is quite limited. Wind cannot compensate for that.
This can be somewhat compared to agriculture. In winter, relatively few fields are harvested; people then rely on the surplus that was gathered and stored during summer.
Most energy is needed in Germany during winter, when unfortunately sunlight is quite limited. Wind cannot compensate for that.
This can be somewhat compared to agriculture. In winter, relatively few fields are harvested; people then rely on the surplus that was gathered and stored during summer.
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motorradsilke8 Apr 2023 06:17xMisterDx schrieb:
Yes. An energy supply based purely on solar and wind requires storage. That is undisputed.
In Germany, most energy is needed in winter, when unfortunately solar availability is rather low. Wind cannot fully compensate for this.
This can be compared somewhat to agriculture. In winter, relatively few fields are harvested, and people rely on the surplus harvested and stored during summer. Good comparison. Just look at German supermarkets in winter and show me the products stored in Germany.
It will have to be the same with electricity.
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xMisterDx9 Apr 2023 12:23Are you suggesting that wheat and animal feed come from abroad in winter because we don’t store any supplies?
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