Hello everyone,
we are a German-American family with three young children.
Here you can see our very first floor plan attempt.
We haven’t spoken to any architect yet; this is just the basic house model from ProHaus that we chose (including the exterior walls). The interior layout is entirely our own idea (so this is just the first try).
“Up” (where the garden and bay window are) is west, right is north, down is east, left is south.
The garage is on the property line (which is allowed).
Unfortunately, the software didn’t show me the exact wall dimensions, but I can tell you the house measures 8.48m x 10.30m (28ft x 34ft).
The knee wall height on the north and south sides is 1.60m (5 ft 3 in).
The wall thicknesses as well as all furniture (except those in the utility room) are carefully measured and were entered accordingly (it’s just not visible in the program). The square meter figures are correct.
For the staircase on the upper floor, there is obviously no wall in front of it. The software didn’t let me change that.
What must absolutely stay:
- No basement (decided after long discussions)
- An additional entrance through the garage (my American husband insisted on this)
- The staircase in the living area (we want to keep all hallways as small as possible and simply find it much cozier – of course, it’s a matter of taste). The staircase is open underneath, so there is space for bookshelves, etc.
- The glass bay window on the ground floor in the living room, which should have access to the garden
- The gable sides facing the street and the garden (this is required by the municipality, relating to the building permit / planning permission)
- All bedrooms on the upper floor (this is important for us as a family; we want to stay together and not be separated)
- The rooms themselves (meaning which rooms there are). Their sizes and exact locations can of course be changed
-- We need the three children’s rooms. I know they are quite small, but we think it’s more important that each child has their own personal space, especially as they grow older. Their bedrooms in our current apartment are much smaller.
-- Two bathrooms. We think this is practical because eventually, there will be five people needing a bathroom at the same time. No shower on the ground floor.
-- One bathroom & a walk-in closet that are only accessible from the master bedroom (again, the American style)
- The master bedroom can remain fairly small, maybe a bit bigger, but not much. We only sleep there and don’t care about size, as long as the bed fits.
- The storage room downstairs is intended for toy boxes, etc., to keep the children’s rooms less cluttered.
What we are not 100% happy with yet:
On the ground floor:
- My biggest problem: the utility room. 5.62 m² (60 sq ft) – is that really enough?
What needs / should fit in:
air source heat pump, hot water tank, ion exchanger (to remove lime scale from the water), laundry basket for dirty clothes, washing machine, dryer (stacked if necessary), if possible a sink for dirty boots, etc. (since this is also our entrance). Is the space enough? If not, how can I improve it?
- Kitchen is 12.03 m² (130 sq ft). Is that enough for five people? I know there is no wall between the kitchen and living room, but isn’t it a bit small? Or is it sufficient considering there is a pantry for supplies? The island has to stay; again, that’s our American influence.
- The bay window. Is it well positioned in the “middle” of the living room? Or should I move it all the way to the left? (Though the decorative fireplace is in the left corner). The door inside the bay window area can be moved individually, so it could be positioned so people don’t have to squeeze past the dining table – but this doesn’t really bother us anyway.
- The hallway still feels too large to me. (Not the part left towards the WC—there’s the coat closet there—but more the long one going from the entrance to the living room). What do you think?
On the upper floor:
- The children’s rooms. For “Child 1,” I don’t like the offset wall very much. (For “Child 3,” I think it’s okay; a wardrobe fits nicely there, saving space).
- Master bathroom. I would like it to be around 9 m² (97 sq ft). But how? The bathtub and so on are moved away from the exterior wall because cupboards (built-in shelves) are planned in the wall, and I would have to add another wall. I can’t do that on the exterior wall, can I? Or is that possible?
- Walk-in closet. I measured the dimensions today (2.25m x 1.12m / 7 ft 4 in x 3 ft 8 in) by using blankets on the floor and boxes as wardrobes (Pax units 60 cm (24 in) deep). There is still around 75 cm (30 in) of walking space, which is okay (of course, to open a drawer you have to stand to the side, but that’s fine—I don’t intend to live in there, just get my clothes in the morning). Still, bigger would be nicer.
Besides that, I’m completely open to entirely new floor plan ideas as long as the main requirements above can largely be maintained. I find everything a bit complicated and somehow crowded.
Some rooms are still too narrow or not very straightforward.
Do you have better ideas or great solutions? Good suggestions?
It doesn’t help me if someone just says “everything is bad.” What I need is someone who tells me how to solve it better.
Our neighbors have three bedrooms upstairs (I attached their floor plan as OGneighbors – unfortunately drawn quickly and roughly in Paint). Of course, all bedrooms have doors leading to the hallway (including Child 2’s). To me, their master bedroom is too large, but the bathroom and walk-in closet are nicely sized. But how can I place the staircase in the middle without it blocking the ground floor layout?
Maybe someone here is super creative and can show me completely new possibilities I haven’t thought of yet or convince me to go in the opposite direction?
I would really appreciate that.
Thank you very much and best regards,
Anya
we are a German-American family with three young children.
Here you can see our very first floor plan attempt.
We haven’t spoken to any architect yet; this is just the basic house model from ProHaus that we chose (including the exterior walls). The interior layout is entirely our own idea (so this is just the first try).
“Up” (where the garden and bay window are) is west, right is north, down is east, left is south.
The garage is on the property line (which is allowed).
Unfortunately, the software didn’t show me the exact wall dimensions, but I can tell you the house measures 8.48m x 10.30m (28ft x 34ft).
The knee wall height on the north and south sides is 1.60m (5 ft 3 in).
The wall thicknesses as well as all furniture (except those in the utility room) are carefully measured and were entered accordingly (it’s just not visible in the program). The square meter figures are correct.
For the staircase on the upper floor, there is obviously no wall in front of it. The software didn’t let me change that.
What must absolutely stay:
- No basement (decided after long discussions)
- An additional entrance through the garage (my American husband insisted on this)
- The staircase in the living area (we want to keep all hallways as small as possible and simply find it much cozier – of course, it’s a matter of taste). The staircase is open underneath, so there is space for bookshelves, etc.
- The glass bay window on the ground floor in the living room, which should have access to the garden
- The gable sides facing the street and the garden (this is required by the municipality, relating to the building permit / planning permission)
- All bedrooms on the upper floor (this is important for us as a family; we want to stay together and not be separated)
- The rooms themselves (meaning which rooms there are). Their sizes and exact locations can of course be changed
-- We need the three children’s rooms. I know they are quite small, but we think it’s more important that each child has their own personal space, especially as they grow older. Their bedrooms in our current apartment are much smaller.
-- Two bathrooms. We think this is practical because eventually, there will be five people needing a bathroom at the same time. No shower on the ground floor.
-- One bathroom & a walk-in closet that are only accessible from the master bedroom (again, the American style)
- The master bedroom can remain fairly small, maybe a bit bigger, but not much. We only sleep there and don’t care about size, as long as the bed fits.
- The storage room downstairs is intended for toy boxes, etc., to keep the children’s rooms less cluttered.
What we are not 100% happy with yet:
On the ground floor:
- My biggest problem: the utility room. 5.62 m² (60 sq ft) – is that really enough?
What needs / should fit in:
air source heat pump, hot water tank, ion exchanger (to remove lime scale from the water), laundry basket for dirty clothes, washing machine, dryer (stacked if necessary), if possible a sink for dirty boots, etc. (since this is also our entrance). Is the space enough? If not, how can I improve it?
- Kitchen is 12.03 m² (130 sq ft). Is that enough for five people? I know there is no wall between the kitchen and living room, but isn’t it a bit small? Or is it sufficient considering there is a pantry for supplies? The island has to stay; again, that’s our American influence.
- The bay window. Is it well positioned in the “middle” of the living room? Or should I move it all the way to the left? (Though the decorative fireplace is in the left corner). The door inside the bay window area can be moved individually, so it could be positioned so people don’t have to squeeze past the dining table – but this doesn’t really bother us anyway.
- The hallway still feels too large to me. (Not the part left towards the WC—there’s the coat closet there—but more the long one going from the entrance to the living room). What do you think?
On the upper floor:
- The children’s rooms. For “Child 1,” I don’t like the offset wall very much. (For “Child 3,” I think it’s okay; a wardrobe fits nicely there, saving space).
- Master bathroom. I would like it to be around 9 m² (97 sq ft). But how? The bathtub and so on are moved away from the exterior wall because cupboards (built-in shelves) are planned in the wall, and I would have to add another wall. I can’t do that on the exterior wall, can I? Or is that possible?
- Walk-in closet. I measured the dimensions today (2.25m x 1.12m / 7 ft 4 in x 3 ft 8 in) by using blankets on the floor and boxes as wardrobes (Pax units 60 cm (24 in) deep). There is still around 75 cm (30 in) of walking space, which is okay (of course, to open a drawer you have to stand to the side, but that’s fine—I don’t intend to live in there, just get my clothes in the morning). Still, bigger would be nicer.
Besides that, I’m completely open to entirely new floor plan ideas as long as the main requirements above can largely be maintained. I find everything a bit complicated and somehow crowded.
Some rooms are still too narrow or not very straightforward.
Do you have better ideas or great solutions? Good suggestions?
It doesn’t help me if someone just says “everything is bad.” What I need is someone who tells me how to solve it better.
Our neighbors have three bedrooms upstairs (I attached their floor plan as OGneighbors – unfortunately drawn quickly and roughly in Paint). Of course, all bedrooms have doors leading to the hallway (including Child 2’s). To me, their master bedroom is too large, but the bathroom and walk-in closet are nicely sized. But how can I place the staircase in the middle without it blocking the ground floor layout?
Maybe someone here is super creative and can show me completely new possibilities I haven’t thought of yet or convince me to go in the opposite direction?
I would really appreciate that.
Thank you very much and best regards,
Anya
So, if the house is not allowed to be bigger, then you need to prioritize your requirements differently.
And just because you are currently limiting yourself in some way, you should still try to approach it differently for a complete new build.
Which design software are you using now?
Is a knee wall height of 160 cm (63 inches) the maximum?
And why was the basement removed from your plans? It could solve quite a few issues.
One more suggestion: two of your children's bedrooms are planned facing north. It might be better to have all of them facing south or west.
A scan of the site plan with the plot dimensions (covering address and other personal details) would be helpful.
Have you already consulted an architect?
And just because you are currently limiting yourself in some way, you should still try to approach it differently for a complete new build.
Which design software are you using now?
Is a knee wall height of 160 cm (63 inches) the maximum?
And why was the basement removed from your plans? It could solve quite a few issues.
One more suggestion: two of your children's bedrooms are planned facing north. It might be better to have all of them facing south or west.
A scan of the site plan with the plot dimensions (covering address and other personal details) would be helpful.
Have you already consulted an architect?
Hello kbt09,
sorry, I forgot to mention that I used Roomsketcher, but I’m currently trying it out in a program that shows the dimensions.
Of course, bigger is always better, but the question is also what is important to me, and for example, a cloakroom is not important to me (or a larger one).
A knee wall height of 160cm (63 inches) is the maximum for our budget.
The basement has been dropped for two reasons: a) budget and b) neighbors. We asked the local authorities and neighbors, and unfortunately, the groundwater level is so high that even with a little rain, all neighbors (whether waterproof concrete or bituminous membrane, it doesn’t matter) have water in their basements and now have nothing stored down there anymore. Truly nothing at all, so I don’t think it’s worth the money.
Only one children’s room is on the north side; the other one does have a west-facing side. I would have liked to arrange it the other way around and initially tried that, but then nothing else fit.
As I said at the beginning, we haven’t been to an architect yet. Hopefully (or certainly – that’s their job), they will have better ideas. This is just an idea from us.
Best regards,
Anya.
sorry, I forgot to mention that I used Roomsketcher, but I’m currently trying it out in a program that shows the dimensions.
Of course, bigger is always better, but the question is also what is important to me, and for example, a cloakroom is not important to me (or a larger one).
A knee wall height of 160cm (63 inches) is the maximum for our budget.
The basement has been dropped for two reasons: a) budget and b) neighbors. We asked the local authorities and neighbors, and unfortunately, the groundwater level is so high that even with a little rain, all neighbors (whether waterproof concrete or bituminous membrane, it doesn’t matter) have water in their basements and now have nothing stored down there anymore. Truly nothing at all, so I don’t think it’s worth the money.
Only one children’s room is on the north side; the other one does have a west-facing side. I would have liked to arrange it the other way around and initially tried that, but then nothing else fit.
As I said at the beginning, we haven’t been to an architect yet. Hopefully (or certainly – that’s their job), they will have better ideas. This is just an idea from us.
Best regards,
Anya.
Is a full two-story building allowed? The price difference between a knee wall height of 160cm (63 inches) and 220cm (87 inches) shouldn’t be that significant. What are the regulations regarding roof pitch?
Because with a knee wall height of 160cm (63 inches), for example, the two closets in your drawn dressing room are only fully usable up to half their height; the other half is limited by the sloping roof.
How old are the children currently? The cloakroom area seems unimportant… hmm, with five people, all of whom sometimes have guests, I do have concerns about that.
Because with a knee wall height of 160cm (63 inches), for example, the two closets in your drawn dressing room are only fully usable up to half their height; the other half is limited by the sloping roof.
How old are the children currently? The cloakroom area seems unimportant… hmm, with five people, all of whom sometimes have guests, I do have concerns about that.
Oh dear, there is still a lot that needs improving here.
Will you still love having the staircase in the living area in 10 years? What if you’re sitting on the couch in your pajamas and your children bring their partners home? Have you ever lived in a house with a staircase in the living area? It looks nice, yes, but that’s about it. Every sound travels upstairs to the children’s rooms. Privacy is out of the question.
The bedroom is a joke. Ours isn’t large either, but at least we can comfortably walk around the bed, even if we aren’t fully mobile for some reason—using crutches or needing assistance. It’s also great when someone is sleeping, and another person needs to move between the bathroom and the walk-in closet. You always have to go around the bed. And try to imagine handling a laundry basket in your bedroom.
The upstairs hallway is dark and cramped—okay, cramped is unavoidable with a house this size for five people.
The staircase from the bedroom: one wrong step, and you’ll find yourself downstairs faster than you’d like.
Maybe consider redesigning here: put the bedroom where the bathroom is now, turn the current bedroom into a walk-in closet, and move the bathroom to where the walk-in closet is. Personally, I would skip the walk-in closet entirely and prefer a larger bedroom with a wardrobe—that’s more useful. We have 200m2 (2,150 sq ft) with three children and unfortunately had to give up the desired walk-in closet as well. And we don’t have ballroom-sized rooms either.
The dining nook: imagine sitting there with guests at the table. Three children are running around and constantly going in and out of the terrace door. Someone always has to get up from the chair to open and close the door.
Storage space for Barbie and Lego? Huh? In our case, that’s in the children’s rooms. What you really need much more is space for the washing machine, dryer, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, and so on.
Sorry that I can’t say anything positive about the floor plan, but it’s really one mistake after another. Please leave the planning to an architect who knows what they’re doing.
Will you still love having the staircase in the living area in 10 years? What if you’re sitting on the couch in your pajamas and your children bring their partners home? Have you ever lived in a house with a staircase in the living area? It looks nice, yes, but that’s about it. Every sound travels upstairs to the children’s rooms. Privacy is out of the question.
The bedroom is a joke. Ours isn’t large either, but at least we can comfortably walk around the bed, even if we aren’t fully mobile for some reason—using crutches or needing assistance. It’s also great when someone is sleeping, and another person needs to move between the bathroom and the walk-in closet. You always have to go around the bed. And try to imagine handling a laundry basket in your bedroom.
The upstairs hallway is dark and cramped—okay, cramped is unavoidable with a house this size for five people.
The staircase from the bedroom: one wrong step, and you’ll find yourself downstairs faster than you’d like.
Maybe consider redesigning here: put the bedroom where the bathroom is now, turn the current bedroom into a walk-in closet, and move the bathroom to where the walk-in closet is. Personally, I would skip the walk-in closet entirely and prefer a larger bedroom with a wardrobe—that’s more useful. We have 200m2 (2,150 sq ft) with three children and unfortunately had to give up the desired walk-in closet as well. And we don’t have ballroom-sized rooms either.
The dining nook: imagine sitting there with guests at the table. Three children are running around and constantly going in and out of the terrace door. Someone always has to get up from the chair to open and close the door.
Storage space for Barbie and Lego? Huh? In our case, that’s in the children’s rooms. What you really need much more is space for the washing machine, dryer, toilet paper, cleaning supplies, and so on.
Sorry that I can’t say anything positive about the floor plan, but it’s really one mistake after another. Please leave the planning to an architect who knows what they’re doing.
Sorry for the brief reply earlier. Only when information is provided that doesn’t work, and I transfer the measurements to other rooms and elements, and realize that nothing can really function properly, was the only sensible response:
Even with the following dimensions
it still doesn’t become a usable space: cabinets stand approximately 5 to 10 cm (2 to 4 inches) away from the wall. This leaves you and your husband barely 50/60 cm (20 to 24 inches) to move around… or something like that.
And this problem runs through every room, for example also in the utility room.
I’ll repeat myself gladly: the table fits, but the space to use the chairs around it does not.
You have to roughly add about 20 cm (8 inches) everywhere because door frames take space left and right and project from the wall, doors need to be opened (door handles), light switches and sockets also take up space on the walls. Also – I don’t know how ProHaus builds – but sketch dimensions from these room planners are always approximate values, so a few centimeters might be missing later. When plaster is applied, that adds a few more centimeters. Since you will be moving all your furniture with you, that would be disastrous.
It will be like this: the architect/draftsman will implement your ideas blindly, and then you’ll be very surprised because nothing fits anymore.
You have a room program for 5 people, I don’t know how many square meters you have in the house… would you like to share?
A room program for 5 people might fit into these dimensions of 8.3 x 10.5 meters (27 x 34 feet), but not a dressing room, separate office, third bathroom, pantry, and storage room in addition to the technical room.
Now you can’t go bigger and money (for example, for a basement) is also not available!
Then you only have one option: cut rooms!
Upper floor: parents’ shower bathroom without space-consuming corner tub on 5 m² (54 square feet), children’s bathroom with tub and shower on 6 m² (65 square feet), normal walkable bedroom with generous wardrobe in the sloped ceiling area.
Ground floor: staircase with less space requirement in the entrance hall and storage underneath, pantry is removed, the freezer must be part of the utility room, pantry, and everything else.
With skill, you can still make your bathroom a bit larger, fit the washing machine and dryer into 2 additional m² (22 square feet) in the children’s bathroom, and the homeowner can have his PC room.
Current staircase situation: it takes away any peace on the sofa, sofa layout takes an estimated 12 m² (130 square feet) away from your living area, namely between sofa and kitchen.
The staircase also takes away potential space.
I think the kitchen is completely fine, and the dimensions seem correct, by the way.
Borderline attitude – in social housing (a little irony has to be allowed), 3-4 people share one toilet (that’s 1 in number!). Well... for you there should be enough space for that.
That’s it from my side for now – I actually browsed ProHaus to find measurements, but don’t they at least offer a variant with 3 children’s rooms on the upper floor?
Otherwise, you might want to get ideas from other sources.
Regards, Yvonne
ypg schrieb:
a 8.50 x 10.30 meter (28 x 34 feet) house is not a space miracle.
Even with the following dimensions
Anya. schrieb:
Correct measurements are 2.25 m² x 1.91 (about 7.4 x 6.3 feet), which gives a 71 cm (28 inches) passageway. Please forgive me the 4 cm (1.5 inches)
it still doesn’t become a usable space: cabinets stand approximately 5 to 10 cm (2 to 4 inches) away from the wall. This leaves you and your husband barely 50/60 cm (20 to 24 inches) to move around… or something like that.
And this problem runs through every room, for example also in the utility room.
I’ll repeat myself gladly: the table fits, but the space to use the chairs around it does not.
You have to roughly add about 20 cm (8 inches) everywhere because door frames take space left and right and project from the wall, doors need to be opened (door handles), light switches and sockets also take up space on the walls. Also – I don’t know how ProHaus builds – but sketch dimensions from these room planners are always approximate values, so a few centimeters might be missing later. When plaster is applied, that adds a few more centimeters. Since you will be moving all your furniture with you, that would be disastrous.
It will be like this: the architect/draftsman will implement your ideas blindly, and then you’ll be very surprised because nothing fits anymore.
You have a room program for 5 people, I don’t know how many square meters you have in the house… would you like to share?
A room program for 5 people might fit into these dimensions of 8.3 x 10.5 meters (27 x 34 feet), but not a dressing room, separate office, third bathroom, pantry, and storage room in addition to the technical room.
Now you can’t go bigger and money (for example, for a basement) is also not available!
Then you only have one option: cut rooms!
Upper floor: parents’ shower bathroom without space-consuming corner tub on 5 m² (54 square feet), children’s bathroom with tub and shower on 6 m² (65 square feet), normal walkable bedroom with generous wardrobe in the sloped ceiling area.
Ground floor: staircase with less space requirement in the entrance hall and storage underneath, pantry is removed, the freezer must be part of the utility room, pantry, and everything else.
With skill, you can still make your bathroom a bit larger, fit the washing machine and dryer into 2 additional m² (22 square feet) in the children’s bathroom, and the homeowner can have his PC room.
Current staircase situation: it takes away any peace on the sofa, sofa layout takes an estimated 12 m² (130 square feet) away from your living area, namely between sofa and kitchen.
The staircase also takes away potential space.
I think the kitchen is completely fine, and the dimensions seem correct, by the way.
Anya. schrieb:
Three toilets for 5 people is borderline too few. I am thinking about stomach flu viruses and only 2 toilets – help!
Borderline attitude – in social housing (a little irony has to be allowed), 3-4 people share one toilet (that’s 1 in number!). Well... for you there should be enough space for that.
That’s it from my side for now – I actually browsed ProHaus to find measurements, but don’t they at least offer a variant with 3 children’s rooms on the upper floor?
Otherwise, you might want to get ideas from other sources.
Regards, Yvonne
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