E
ElBoCaDiLlO14 Feb 2017 11:58Hello everyone,
a brief overview of the house:
New build in 2016, moved in September. The municipal water pressure is 3.5 bar (51 psi) according to the pressure reducer. Water softener with 3/4" connection, shower fittings are Grohe Euphoria.
My problem is that the water pressure in the showers is relatively low, and overall the flow rate is rather poor. The washing machine doesn’t report any issues, and I measured about 8 liters per minute (2.1 gallons per minute) at the showers and other fittings.
In the bathtub, however, it is around 11 liters per minute (2.9 gallons per minute).
From an environmental perspective, it’s great that less water flows automatically, but it’s frustrating when instead of a strong stream, only a weak dribble comes out of the shower head. There’s simply no proper spray.
Now I’m not sure what the cause could be. Could the flexible hoses on the water softener be a factor? I tried bypassing the softener at the mixing valve as a test, but didn’t notice any difference.
Something is definitely wrong, or maybe the 3.5 bar (51 psi) supplied by the water utility company just isn’t enough? Could it be that the wrong hose sizes were used in general? I don’t know exactly what was installed, but normally the connections at the fittings are 3/8", which is already quite small. I assume all pipes before that are larger, right? Shouldn’t the flow speed automatically increase when the pipe diameter decreases?
For your information, I have the same flow rate in the showers in both the basement and the upper floor. These are located close to the municipal water line (therefore only one-way flow without a circulation system). I estimate the maximum pipe run to be about 10 meters (33 feet).
The kitchen water supply is much further away (probably around 20 meters / 66 feet), but the flow rate there is also the same.
I hope you can shed some light on this issue and provide a solution to increase the water pressure in the showers.
Best regards
a brief overview of the house:
New build in 2016, moved in September. The municipal water pressure is 3.5 bar (51 psi) according to the pressure reducer. Water softener with 3/4" connection, shower fittings are Grohe Euphoria.
My problem is that the water pressure in the showers is relatively low, and overall the flow rate is rather poor. The washing machine doesn’t report any issues, and I measured about 8 liters per minute (2.1 gallons per minute) at the showers and other fittings.
In the bathtub, however, it is around 11 liters per minute (2.9 gallons per minute).
From an environmental perspective, it’s great that less water flows automatically, but it’s frustrating when instead of a strong stream, only a weak dribble comes out of the shower head. There’s simply no proper spray.
Now I’m not sure what the cause could be. Could the flexible hoses on the water softener be a factor? I tried bypassing the softener at the mixing valve as a test, but didn’t notice any difference.
Something is definitely wrong, or maybe the 3.5 bar (51 psi) supplied by the water utility company just isn’t enough? Could it be that the wrong hose sizes were used in general? I don’t know exactly what was installed, but normally the connections at the fittings are 3/8", which is already quite small. I assume all pipes before that are larger, right? Shouldn’t the flow speed automatically increase when the pipe diameter decreases?
For your information, I have the same flow rate in the showers in both the basement and the upper floor. These are located close to the municipal water line (therefore only one-way flow without a circulation system). I estimate the maximum pipe run to be about 10 meters (33 feet).
The kitchen water supply is much further away (probably around 20 meters / 66 feet), but the flow rate there is also the same.
I hope you can shed some light on this issue and provide a solution to increase the water pressure in the showers.
Best regards
Hello,
Water softening systems can have a negative impact on pressure.
What does the pressure reducer show when a tap is running (this is usually lower than the static pressure when taps are closed)?
Is the pressure reducer fully open?
Otherwise, the fittings can also have an effect, as ypg mentioned (in our case, they were already factory-set for full flow).
Regards
Water softening systems can have a negative impact on pressure.
What does the pressure reducer show when a tap is running (this is usually lower than the static pressure when taps are closed)?
Is the pressure reducer fully open?
Otherwise, the fittings can also have an effect, as ypg mentioned (in our case, they were already factory-set for full flow).
Regards
E
ElBoCaDiLlO14 Feb 2017 13:28Hello,
Thank you for your quick response.
The faucet does not have a water-saving button; I can only switch between the handheld showerhead and the overhead showerhead. However, it is possible that there is an adjustable valve inside the thermostat itself. I opened it up but couldn’t see anything with my untrained eye, and I couldn’t find any information online either.
I don’t have a thermostat installed everywhere, and the fittings that connect directly to the 3/8" pipes, like in the kitchen, have a low flow rate.
Whenever I open a water line somewhere, the pressure drops at the pressure reducer, which is fully open. I have no idea to which value it drops; I will observe this tonight.
Is there a typical value I should expect there?
Our water hardness is about 16°dH, and I definitely wanted to install a water softener in between. However, even if I bypass it, the flow rate doesn’t change. To operate the softener properly, a loop was installed upward, where I inserted a mounting block with a bypass, and from there the line continues to the heating system.
Edit based on Nordlys's post.
Unfortunately, I don’t have an outdoor faucet, but I seem to remember the pressure on the pipe for the washing machine was higher than when I tapped water for construction purposes. Otherwise, I will try measuring directly at the mounting block before the connection to the water softener as a test.
Is the pressure in the shower regulated only by the flow rate, or can the flow speed be increased afterward by adding certain restrictions?
Best regards
Thank you for your quick response.
The faucet does not have a water-saving button; I can only switch between the handheld showerhead and the overhead showerhead. However, it is possible that there is an adjustable valve inside the thermostat itself. I opened it up but couldn’t see anything with my untrained eye, and I couldn’t find any information online either.
I don’t have a thermostat installed everywhere, and the fittings that connect directly to the 3/8" pipes, like in the kitchen, have a low flow rate.
Whenever I open a water line somewhere, the pressure drops at the pressure reducer, which is fully open. I have no idea to which value it drops; I will observe this tonight.
Is there a typical value I should expect there?
Our water hardness is about 16°dH, and I definitely wanted to install a water softener in between. However, even if I bypass it, the flow rate doesn’t change. To operate the softener properly, a loop was installed upward, where I inserted a mounting block with a bypass, and from there the line continues to the heating system.
Edit based on Nordlys's post.
Unfortunately, I don’t have an outdoor faucet, but I seem to remember the pressure on the pipe for the washing machine was higher than when I tapped water for construction purposes. Otherwise, I will try measuring directly at the mounting block before the connection to the water softener as a test.
Is the pressure in the shower regulated only by the flow rate, or can the flow speed be increased afterward by adding certain restrictions?
Best regards
I have used handheld showers with nozzle settings that were just not practical. There are so many spray patterns to choose from, and with some showers, everything just feels too soft.
Rain shower heads are supposed to produce a finer, pearl-like spray (is that how you’d say it?!), so they don't create a harsh stream. At a friend's place, they overlooked that a larger shower head also requires more water flow—the pipe diameter probably should have been bigger.
How soft is the water, by the way? The feel changes a lot when the water is significantly softened.
An 8 L/min (2.1 gal/min) flow rate is considered good for a water-saving shower head. For rain showers, though, this seems to be a bit on the low side.
Rain shower heads are supposed to produce a finer, pearl-like spray (is that how you’d say it?!), so they don't create a harsh stream. At a friend's place, they overlooked that a larger shower head also requires more water flow—the pipe diameter probably should have been bigger.
How soft is the water, by the way? The feel changes a lot when the water is significantly softened.
An 8 L/min (2.1 gal/min) flow rate is considered good for a water-saving shower head. For rain showers, though, this seems to be a bit on the low side.
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