ᐅ Is it possible to have a gas boiler without a solar system?
Created on: 11 Jan 2016 15:24
F
futtinger
Hello,
we are currently building a solid masonry house with 36.5 Poroton blocks, a gas boiler, no external insulation, and no ventilation system.
Therefore, we do not meet any KfW requirements. The building permit / planning permission includes a solar panel system. Since I am not a fan of solar panels and would like to save around €5000, I am trying to avoid installing it. Is there a way around this? To comply with the energy saving ordinance, the system is basically required. However, my architect said that no one actually checks whether the system is installed or not. We would prepare all the necessary wiring, and if someone really notices the absence of the system, it could still be installed at short notice. Is there any problem with this approach?
I have already spoken with other "experts." Some said there would be no problem, others warned of a potential fine... the building authority would not check, but the chimney sweep might... then I asked the chimney sweep, and he said he wouldn’t check either...
So I am not really sure where I stand. Of course, I don’t want to skip the system and then, in 10 years, have to pay a hefty fine because it was checked somewhere.
Now I could really tear myself and my architect apart.
we are currently building a solid masonry house with 36.5 Poroton blocks, a gas boiler, no external insulation, and no ventilation system.
Therefore, we do not meet any KfW requirements. The building permit / planning permission includes a solar panel system. Since I am not a fan of solar panels and would like to save around €5000, I am trying to avoid installing it. Is there a way around this? To comply with the energy saving ordinance, the system is basically required. However, my architect said that no one actually checks whether the system is installed or not. We would prepare all the necessary wiring, and if someone really notices the absence of the system, it could still be installed at short notice. Is there any problem with this approach?
I have already spoken with other "experts." Some said there would be no problem, others warned of a potential fine... the building authority would not check, but the chimney sweep might... then I asked the chimney sweep, and he said he wouldn’t check either...
So I am not really sure where I stand. Of course, I don’t want to skip the system and then, in 10 years, have to pay a hefty fine because it was checked somewhere.
Now I could really tear myself and my architect apart.
B
Bauexperte12 Jan 2016 11:30f-pNo schrieb:
...however, the building authority is not as naive and blind as some might like to believe. In the regular building permit / planning permission process, the building supervision and other involved authorities review the application very thoroughly and also conduct inspections on site at fixed dates. In the simplified approval procedure, there are only spot checks, unless a "friendly" person provides a tip. Then, the spot check turns into a case-specific inspection.
I assume this applies not only in NRW but is handled similarly nationwide. Therefore, I would always avoid deviating from the approved building permit; although fines are often imposed in such cases, there are also situations where a demolition of the unauthorized work is required. However, fines also hurt financially.
Regards, Bauexperte
Hi,
the thoroughness of inspections will likely depend heavily on the workload of the building authority and whether there are any "helpful people" involved. However, I would strongly advise against relying on the idea that "nothing will happen."
For example, if you simply omit the solar thermal system still shown in the building application, I would strongly recommend at least routing the pipes to the roof and installing a suitable bivalent hot water storage tank next to the heating system. This reduces the potential savings from about 5000 € to probably only 3000 €, but at least the panels can be quickly retrofitted later if necessary.
I know someone who did this, and for three years no one has complained, even though it is clearly visible both from the street and in tools like Google Maps that no solar panels are installed.
Is there a statute of limitations for such issues? Like, if no one has complained for XXX years, no one can complain anymore?
Best regards,
Andreas
the thoroughness of inspections will likely depend heavily on the workload of the building authority and whether there are any "helpful people" involved. However, I would strongly advise against relying on the idea that "nothing will happen."
For example, if you simply omit the solar thermal system still shown in the building application, I would strongly recommend at least routing the pipes to the roof and installing a suitable bivalent hot water storage tank next to the heating system. This reduces the potential savings from about 5000 € to probably only 3000 €, but at least the panels can be quickly retrofitted later if necessary.
I know someone who did this, and for three years no one has complained, even though it is clearly visible both from the street and in tools like Google Maps that no solar panels are installed.
Is there a statute of limitations for such issues? Like, if no one has complained for XXX years, no one can complain anymore?
Best regards,
Andreas
Hi,
this probably depends a lot on the local building authority.
Here, there are hipped roofs even though they are explicitly excluded in the zoning plan, there are gable roofs also officially prohibited, and only about half of the garages have the required green roofing. I know of one case where a “huge” fine of €600 had to be paid for an unauthorized roof overhang. But that was it…
However, I don’t believe the local authority is “blind and careless” at all. On the contrary, during my visits to the building office they seemed very competent. Maybe they just wisely choose to focus on what really matters and leave people alone…
this probably depends a lot on the local building authority.
Hmm – in our area, the building authority inspected the entire development and reviewed several aspects. This even resulted in a builder being asked to completely remove and redo his roof due to an excessive roof overhang. I’m not sure whether he was able to avoid this or possibly have it converted into a fine – but the building authority isn’t as careless or blind as some might assume.
Here, there are hipped roofs even though they are explicitly excluded in the zoning plan, there are gable roofs also officially prohibited, and only about half of the garages have the required green roofing. I know of one case where a “huge” fine of €600 had to be paid for an unauthorized roof overhang. But that was it…
However, I don’t believe the local authority is “blind and careless” at all. On the contrary, during my visits to the building office they seemed very competent. Maybe they just wisely choose to focus on what really matters and leave people alone…
F
futtinger12 Jan 2016 12:59I will definitely have everything prepped by the heating engineer. This means all the pipes will be routed under the roof, so that connecting a solar system is possible at short notice.
Obviously, they have too much money and want to install outdated technology.
Boilers should actually be banned! Everyone should contribute to protecting the environment and future generations of humanity. I fully understand that solar water heating is not feasible when the hot water demand is low. The largest portion of energy consumption in any household is used for space heating. Every house has a roof that needs to withstand weather conditions. A standard solar roof can ensure this, while simultaneously providing a significant part of the required heating energy free of charge over an almost unlimited period. This relieves the environment, conserves available resources, and uses free solar energy. The sun does not send a bill!
There is no value-added tax liability. A solar system for thermal or photovoltaic energy, which requires a roof because they are not weatherproof, involves double costs above the living areas.
Congratulations to the professionals who still install boilers without any qualms. For me, condensing technology has been the more worthwhile heating method for over 35 years compared to the so-called "non-condensing technology," known from traditional boiler sellers, manufacturers, and distributors.
Physics and the basic laws of nature cannot be changed by colorful brochures or by laws and regulations.
We are also only part of nature, in which we may spend a certain time and should appreciate it accordingly.
Boilers should actually be banned! Everyone should contribute to protecting the environment and future generations of humanity. I fully understand that solar water heating is not feasible when the hot water demand is low. The largest portion of energy consumption in any household is used for space heating. Every house has a roof that needs to withstand weather conditions. A standard solar roof can ensure this, while simultaneously providing a significant part of the required heating energy free of charge over an almost unlimited period. This relieves the environment, conserves available resources, and uses free solar energy. The sun does not send a bill!
There is no value-added tax liability. A solar system for thermal or photovoltaic energy, which requires a roof because they are not weatherproof, involves double costs above the living areas.
Congratulations to the professionals who still install boilers without any qualms. For me, condensing technology has been the more worthwhile heating method for over 35 years compared to the so-called "non-condensing technology," known from traditional boiler sellers, manufacturers, and distributors.
Physics and the basic laws of nature cannot be changed by colorful brochures or by laws and regulations.
We are also only part of nature, in which we may spend a certain time and should appreciate it accordingly.
sonniba schrieb:
Obviously, they have too much money and want to install outdated technology – heating boilers should actually be banned! Everyone should make an effort for the environment and future generations of humanity. I fully understand that solar water heating isn’t an option when hot water demand isn’t very high. The biggest energy consumption for most users here goes to space heating. Every house has a roof that should withstand the weather. A standard solar roof can ensure this while simultaneously providing a large part of the required heating energy for free over an almost unlimited period. This relieves the environment, conserves available raw materials, and uses free solar energy. The sun doesn’t send a bill!
There is no VAT obligation. A solar system for thermal or photovoltaic use, which requires a roof extension because they are not weatherproof, demands double the expense above the living areas.
Congratulations to the professionals who still install boilers without any qualms. For me, condensing technology has been the more worthwhile heating method for over 35 years compared to the so-called “heating value technology” popularized by boiler sellers and manufacturers or sales corporations.
Physics and natural laws cannot be changed by colorful brochures, laws, or regulations.
We are also just part of nature, in which we are allowed to spend some time and should appreciate it.With all due respect, the statement as it stands is rather provocative. Even though I understand and can relate to the basic message, everyone makes their own decisions, sometimes based on personal or financial reasons. Therefore, comments like this should be presented more objectively.
A quick note on the comment: "There is no VAT obligation."
Correct – the applicable tax is sales tax (19%) and must also be paid on self-consumption through the annual tax return.
PS: We have a photovoltaic system on the roof – don’t think I’m opposed to photovoltaics.
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