ᐅ Energy-efficient renovation does not pay off! What can be done?
Created on: 23 Aug 2024 11:27
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PATPATPAT
Hi friends. We are considering buying my in-laws’ timber frame house. The house was built in 1979 and, apart from the roof (14cm (5.5 inches) above-rafter insulation), it is not insulated. The wooden windows are also from 1979. Of course, the windows are old, but overall everything is still in very good condition. The energy costs (electricity + gas) for the 130 m2 (1,400 sq ft) house are 2,600 euros. Compared to insulated houses, this is quite high. Therefore, we have been thinking about an energy retrofit. However, the quote for new windows alone is 60,000 euros. In addition, there would be basement insulation and possibly interior insulation for the roof. We have ruled out exterior wall insulation. Altogether, this would probably total around 80,000 euros (including own labor).
These renovations would certainly reduce the energy costs. But even if I save half of the costs going forward (which is probably optimistic), over 40 years (I will be 85 years old then, I don’t expect to live longer), that amounts to 52,000 euros. So it is far from a cost-effective renovation... and theoretically I would need to replace the windows again after 40 years.
Honestly, I am thinking it might be better to do nothing (apart from aesthetic renovations) and live for the next years in a renovated house (but with a lower purchase price, about 280,000 euros) and bear the “higher” energy costs — especially considering rising CO2 costs, etc. Even if I assume the gas price doubles and receive a subsidy for one of the above renovations, it still wouldn’t be worthwhile. The resale value is also not decisive because the house is in a rural area — so rather a lower-demand location.
What do you think? Am I missing something? Is anyone else in this situation? What would you do?
These renovations would certainly reduce the energy costs. But even if I save half of the costs going forward (which is probably optimistic), over 40 years (I will be 85 years old then, I don’t expect to live longer), that amounts to 52,000 euros. So it is far from a cost-effective renovation... and theoretically I would need to replace the windows again after 40 years.
Honestly, I am thinking it might be better to do nothing (apart from aesthetic renovations) and live for the next years in a renovated house (but with a lower purchase price, about 280,000 euros) and bear the “higher” energy costs — especially considering rising CO2 costs, etc. Even if I assume the gas price doubles and receive a subsidy for one of the above renovations, it still wouldn’t be worthwhile. The resale value is also not decisive because the house is in a rural area — so rather a lower-demand location.
What do you think? Am I missing something? Is anyone else in this situation? What would you do?
PATPATPAT schrieb:
The gas heating system is about 25 years old... I can’t say the supply temperature... That would be important, though... also specify the actual gas consumption instead of just the 2600 euros.
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Schorsch_baut23 Aug 2024 12:26I wonder why there is such a focus on payback periods when it comes to renovation. Car owners don’t do this kind of calculation. And with kitchen purchases or bathroom renovations, these considerations rarely play a role for homebuyers either.
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nordanney23 Aug 2024 12:42PATPATPAT schrieb:
This is a house with an exposed roof truss (5m (16 feet) high) and on the narrow side of the house there is a full wall of fixed triangular windows and a huge sliding door. Despite choosing (more affordable) uPVC windows, replacing them is apparently so difficult and therefore expensive. On top of that, there is shading for this window wall and 6 additional standard double windows, some with roller shutters. Still way too expensive. So €5,000 for the double windows and the rest for the large glazing? No way.
PATPATPAT schrieb:
Of course, we considered the complete package: new windows, new radiators, additional roof insulation + basement ceiling insulation, heat pump and solar—but then I’m definitely over €100,000, more like €130,000. ... and you subtract a substantial subsidy in the mid five-digit range from that. Possibly spread over several years.
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Schorsch_baut23 Aug 2024 13:02It’s a bit amusing that you want to continue using 45-year-old windows for decades, yet at the same time argue that new windows aren’t worthwhile because they would need to be replaced after 40 years.
I suspect you simply don’t want to spend money on something that isn’t immediately enjoyable but only practical—like socks and underwear.
I suspect you simply don’t want to spend money on something that isn’t immediately enjoyable but only practical—like socks and underwear.
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nordanney23 Aug 2024 13:20Schorsch_baut schrieb:
What isn’t immediately enjoyable, but simply sensible. Like socks and underwear.The right underwear on the right person isn’t sensible, but it is immediately enjoyable.But it’s true. Wash me, but don’t get me wet.
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PATPATPAT23 Aug 2024 13:35No, I simply don’t feel like replacing something that won’t pay off in the end and doesn’t really offer me any real benefit. As I said, the indoor climate is perfectly fine. And unfortunately, even though it’s often doubted, the €60,000–70,000 is unfortunately accurate... For me, the only question was whether there are people here who support energy-efficient renovations but also discuss the pros and cons. I just can’t see a real benefit from the expenses, except maybe a few hundred euros (depending on the scope of the renovation). Better indoor climate? I don’t need it, it’s already good. Better resale value? Highly questionable because of the location, and who knows what will happen in 40 years! The only real advantage would be climate protection. And I would like to pursue that—but I simply can’t afford the prices mentioned.
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