Good day!
I am the type of person who likes to address and solve things before they become a problem. Therefore, I am considering whether there is a sensible way to move away from heating oil without switching to natural gas. Based on some basic data, can you roughly estimate what might be possible?
The total usable area of the house is 300 square meters, of which 178 square meters (about 1917 square feet) is living space. The difference mainly consists of basement rooms, which I partly use for my freelance work. Two adults and one child live in the house; both adults also work from home. We use about 3,000 liters (approximately 792 gallons) of heating oil per year (around 10 liters (2.6 gallons) per square meter including hot water) and consume about 8,000 kWh of electricity, as we also charge two electric cars.
The house is built with 24 cm (9.4 inches) thick solid Liapor elements, which provide excellent thermal buffering: in summer it remains cool for a long time, and in autumn it stays warm for a long time. Outside, there is 6 cm (2.4 inches) of mineral insulation, followed by a 4 cm (1.6 inches) air gap, and then a brick cladding. The wooden windows are double-glazed. The house has a carpentry-style roof structure with 20 cm (7.9 inches) of mineral insulation, and during the interior work we paid close attention to precise airtightness.
The oil-fired central heating system is now 22 years old but still runs very well. We do not have underfloor heating but radiators in every room. The flow temperature is about 40°C (104°F), and we operate a heating curve roughly as flat as that used for underfloor heating. Our roof shape (half-hipped roof with four gable dormers) is not suitable for photovoltaic panels; however, the garage roof (gable roof with about 30° pitch, ridge orientation north-south) offers space for about 70 square meters (around 753 square feet) of photovoltaic panels, half facing east and half west, with no shading from trees. Between the garage and the house, I have already installed a 5x16 square NyY cable (50 meters long (164 feet)) because that is where the cars are charged. So, if photovoltaic panels are installed on the garage roof, the inverter and control system could be housed in the garage, and there is also space beside the garage for battery storage. There is sufficient garden space for ground collectors as well.
Now I am wondering: is there a reasonable overall concept involving photovoltaics, battery storage, heat pump, and flat plate collectors? I would like to remove the oil tank but do not want a gas connection. Under these conditions, is it possible to achieve a relatively high degree of self-sufficiency for much of the year, so that only a small amount of electricity needs to be purchased, while avoiding the risk of running out of heat in cold periods?
Ideally, I would like to commission an independent energy consultant for such a concept, but I have no idea how to find someone who approaches this in a technology-neutral way while keeping an eye on political decisions that, of course, cannot be predicted now regarding how they will develop over the coming years. If you act too early, you might regret it later when stronger subsidies become available; but if you wait too long, you might have to endure rising oil and electricity prices for a longer period. Besides, I simply no longer find it acceptable to burn oil or gas.
Matthias
I am the type of person who likes to address and solve things before they become a problem. Therefore, I am considering whether there is a sensible way to move away from heating oil without switching to natural gas. Based on some basic data, can you roughly estimate what might be possible?
The total usable area of the house is 300 square meters, of which 178 square meters (about 1917 square feet) is living space. The difference mainly consists of basement rooms, which I partly use for my freelance work. Two adults and one child live in the house; both adults also work from home. We use about 3,000 liters (approximately 792 gallons) of heating oil per year (around 10 liters (2.6 gallons) per square meter including hot water) and consume about 8,000 kWh of electricity, as we also charge two electric cars.
The house is built with 24 cm (9.4 inches) thick solid Liapor elements, which provide excellent thermal buffering: in summer it remains cool for a long time, and in autumn it stays warm for a long time. Outside, there is 6 cm (2.4 inches) of mineral insulation, followed by a 4 cm (1.6 inches) air gap, and then a brick cladding. The wooden windows are double-glazed. The house has a carpentry-style roof structure with 20 cm (7.9 inches) of mineral insulation, and during the interior work we paid close attention to precise airtightness.
The oil-fired central heating system is now 22 years old but still runs very well. We do not have underfloor heating but radiators in every room. The flow temperature is about 40°C (104°F), and we operate a heating curve roughly as flat as that used for underfloor heating. Our roof shape (half-hipped roof with four gable dormers) is not suitable for photovoltaic panels; however, the garage roof (gable roof with about 30° pitch, ridge orientation north-south) offers space for about 70 square meters (around 753 square feet) of photovoltaic panels, half facing east and half west, with no shading from trees. Between the garage and the house, I have already installed a 5x16 square NyY cable (50 meters long (164 feet)) because that is where the cars are charged. So, if photovoltaic panels are installed on the garage roof, the inverter and control system could be housed in the garage, and there is also space beside the garage for battery storage. There is sufficient garden space for ground collectors as well.
Now I am wondering: is there a reasonable overall concept involving photovoltaics, battery storage, heat pump, and flat plate collectors? I would like to remove the oil tank but do not want a gas connection. Under these conditions, is it possible to achieve a relatively high degree of self-sufficiency for much of the year, so that only a small amount of electricity needs to be purchased, while avoiding the risk of running out of heat in cold periods?
Ideally, I would like to commission an independent energy consultant for such a concept, but I have no idea how to find someone who approaches this in a technology-neutral way while keeping an eye on political decisions that, of course, cannot be predicted now regarding how they will develop over the coming years. If you act too early, you might regret it later when stronger subsidies become available; but if you wait too long, you might have to endure rising oil and electricity prices for a longer period. Besides, I simply no longer find it acceptable to burn oil or gas.
Matthias
konibar schrieb:
That's about as original as the electric buses running here in trial operation.
To heat the passenger compartment, these vehicles have a fuel-powered parking heater installed,
because the electric drive "unfortunately" lacks waste heat for heating. There are electric buses with additional diesel heaters for very low temperatures, yes. But that's basically it.
The vehicle itself is still significantly more efficient, locally low-emission (mostly zero-emission throughout the year), and above all QUIET, which is no minor issue in urban areas.
By the way, I don't know if you were aware, but the "chain letter" circulating on some social platforms regarding the electric bus fleet in Berlin is a hoax. Just a heads-up, in case there’s any connection here ;-)
Technological progress doesn't start at the absolute optimum on day one. It takes time—sometimes decades for certain technologies or infrastructure. The speed at which e-mobility is currently developing is quite impressive.
The narrow-mindedness of some complainers is, however, equally impressive.
guckuck2 schrieb:
Pianist, weren’t you the one with the complicated plot situation involving your parents? How did that turn out?Well, "complicated" isn’t quite the right word. Basically, it’s pretty simple: everything belonged to my father until now. After thorough consultation, he has now transferred half of all his assets to his wife, my mother. This way, eventually two separate inheritance cases will occur, which, hopefully, remain within the tax exemption limits. The house I built and live in is already taxed by the authorities as mine, so there are no issues there. We don’t see the need for further arrangements.Back to the topic: How would the domestic hot water system actually work? It needs to be regularly heated to 60°C (140°F) to avoid Legionella risk. But a heat pump can’t achieve that, right? Does it need to be done electrically then?
Looking out the window, I have to say we haven’t seen the sun for weeks...
Matthias
There are now heat pumps that can reach up to 60 and even 70 degrees Celsius (140 and 158 degrees Fahrenheit).
The prevailing opinion here in the forum is that legionella bacteria are generally not a problem in single-family homes with an appropriately sized storage tank, and users typically maintain around 46°C (115°F).
With three people and 300 m² (3,230 ft²), of course, the storage tank could be quite large, which might lead to issues.
In that case, the most practical solution would still be to regularly empty the storage tank and pipes. So, a full bath for the whole family with all taps open.
The water can then be used for flushing, washing, or similar purposes.
The prevailing opinion here in the forum is that legionella bacteria are generally not a problem in single-family homes with an appropriately sized storage tank, and users typically maintain around 46°C (115°F).
With three people and 300 m² (3,230 ft²), of course, the storage tank could be quite large, which might lead to issues.
In that case, the most practical solution would still be to regularly empty the storage tank and pipes. So, a full bath for the whole family with all taps open.
The water can then be used for flushing, washing, or similar purposes.
tomtom79 schrieb:
So a house from 1999 with a consumption of 3000 liters is, in my opinion, very high. My sister also built in 1999, with a living area around 160m2 (1700 sq ft), but only uses 800-900 liters of oil plus 2-3 steres of wood.
I would first check where the oil is going. He is heating almost 300m2 (3200 sq ft)! That’s reasonable. No input, no output.
The “mistake” was actually made during construction in 1999: the lack of underfloor heating.
You’ve already received the right advice!
A house built in 1999 should still be compatible with efficient heating using a heat pump…
B
Benutzer20021 Dec 2021 09:41Pianist schrieb:
Looking out the window, I have to say we haven't seen the sun for weeks...What a shame – especially this week the heat pump has been running almost continuously from sunrise to sunset using solar power, and the car can still be charged around midday.The decision to forgo underfloor heating was a deliberate one at the time. I was told that heat from below is not good for the body and that it also stirs up too much dust because warm air constantly rises across the entire floor surface. In my case, there are also many pipes running beneath the screed. Adding heating pipes on top of that would have caused complete chaos.
Additionally, relatives of mine were having major issues with their building project around the same time because the cooperation between the screed contractor and the heating installer did not go well. As a result, the screed and tiles cracked one after another in every room, accompanied by loud popping noises.
All of these factors led me to stick with conventional radiators.
Matthias
Additionally, relatives of mine were having major issues with their building project around the same time because the cooperation between the screed contractor and the heating installer did not go well. As a result, the screed and tiles cracked one after another in every room, accompanied by loud popping noises.
All of these factors led me to stick with conventional radiators.
Matthias
Similar topics