Good day!
I am the type of person who likes to address and solve things before they become a problem. Therefore, I am considering whether there is a sensible way to move away from heating oil without switching to natural gas. Based on some basic data, can you roughly estimate what might be possible?
The total usable area of the house is 300 square meters, of which 178 square meters (about 1917 square feet) is living space. The difference mainly consists of basement rooms, which I partly use for my freelance work. Two adults and one child live in the house; both adults also work from home. We use about 3,000 liters (approximately 792 gallons) of heating oil per year (around 10 liters (2.6 gallons) per square meter including hot water) and consume about 8,000 kWh of electricity, as we also charge two electric cars.
The house is built with 24 cm (9.4 inches) thick solid Liapor elements, which provide excellent thermal buffering: in summer it remains cool for a long time, and in autumn it stays warm for a long time. Outside, there is 6 cm (2.4 inches) of mineral insulation, followed by a 4 cm (1.6 inches) air gap, and then a brick cladding. The wooden windows are double-glazed. The house has a carpentry-style roof structure with 20 cm (7.9 inches) of mineral insulation, and during the interior work we paid close attention to precise airtightness.
The oil-fired central heating system is now 22 years old but still runs very well. We do not have underfloor heating but radiators in every room. The flow temperature is about 40°C (104°F), and we operate a heating curve roughly as flat as that used for underfloor heating. Our roof shape (half-hipped roof with four gable dormers) is not suitable for photovoltaic panels; however, the garage roof (gable roof with about 30° pitch, ridge orientation north-south) offers space for about 70 square meters (around 753 square feet) of photovoltaic panels, half facing east and half west, with no shading from trees. Between the garage and the house, I have already installed a 5x16 square NyY cable (50 meters long (164 feet)) because that is where the cars are charged. So, if photovoltaic panels are installed on the garage roof, the inverter and control system could be housed in the garage, and there is also space beside the garage for battery storage. There is sufficient garden space for ground collectors as well.
Now I am wondering: is there a reasonable overall concept involving photovoltaics, battery storage, heat pump, and flat plate collectors? I would like to remove the oil tank but do not want a gas connection. Under these conditions, is it possible to achieve a relatively high degree of self-sufficiency for much of the year, so that only a small amount of electricity needs to be purchased, while avoiding the risk of running out of heat in cold periods?
Ideally, I would like to commission an independent energy consultant for such a concept, but I have no idea how to find someone who approaches this in a technology-neutral way while keeping an eye on political decisions that, of course, cannot be predicted now regarding how they will develop over the coming years. If you act too early, you might regret it later when stronger subsidies become available; but if you wait too long, you might have to endure rising oil and electricity prices for a longer period. Besides, I simply no longer find it acceptable to burn oil or gas.
Matthias
I am the type of person who likes to address and solve things before they become a problem. Therefore, I am considering whether there is a sensible way to move away from heating oil without switching to natural gas. Based on some basic data, can you roughly estimate what might be possible?
The total usable area of the house is 300 square meters, of which 178 square meters (about 1917 square feet) is living space. The difference mainly consists of basement rooms, which I partly use for my freelance work. Two adults and one child live in the house; both adults also work from home. We use about 3,000 liters (approximately 792 gallons) of heating oil per year (around 10 liters (2.6 gallons) per square meter including hot water) and consume about 8,000 kWh of electricity, as we also charge two electric cars.
The house is built with 24 cm (9.4 inches) thick solid Liapor elements, which provide excellent thermal buffering: in summer it remains cool for a long time, and in autumn it stays warm for a long time. Outside, there is 6 cm (2.4 inches) of mineral insulation, followed by a 4 cm (1.6 inches) air gap, and then a brick cladding. The wooden windows are double-glazed. The house has a carpentry-style roof structure with 20 cm (7.9 inches) of mineral insulation, and during the interior work we paid close attention to precise airtightness.
The oil-fired central heating system is now 22 years old but still runs very well. We do not have underfloor heating but radiators in every room. The flow temperature is about 40°C (104°F), and we operate a heating curve roughly as flat as that used for underfloor heating. Our roof shape (half-hipped roof with four gable dormers) is not suitable for photovoltaic panels; however, the garage roof (gable roof with about 30° pitch, ridge orientation north-south) offers space for about 70 square meters (around 753 square feet) of photovoltaic panels, half facing east and half west, with no shading from trees. Between the garage and the house, I have already installed a 5x16 square NyY cable (50 meters long (164 feet)) because that is where the cars are charged. So, if photovoltaic panels are installed on the garage roof, the inverter and control system could be housed in the garage, and there is also space beside the garage for battery storage. There is sufficient garden space for ground collectors as well.
Now I am wondering: is there a reasonable overall concept involving photovoltaics, battery storage, heat pump, and flat plate collectors? I would like to remove the oil tank but do not want a gas connection. Under these conditions, is it possible to achieve a relatively high degree of self-sufficiency for much of the year, so that only a small amount of electricity needs to be purchased, while avoiding the risk of running out of heat in cold periods?
Ideally, I would like to commission an independent energy consultant for such a concept, but I have no idea how to find someone who approaches this in a technology-neutral way while keeping an eye on political decisions that, of course, cannot be predicted now regarding how they will develop over the coming years. If you act too early, you might regret it later when stronger subsidies become available; but if you wait too long, you might have to endure rising oil and electricity prices for a longer period. Besides, I simply no longer find it acceptable to burn oil or gas.
Matthias
D
Deliverer21 Dec 2021 11:03Pianist schrieb:
That was already old back then and has been dead for a long time.He must have had radiators, and now it’s dead...
Pianist schrieb:
Back then, this mostly came from the only civil engineer in the family circle, who always had an opinion on everything, Oh yes, just like my late "Aunt Analysis"—she (and other charity circle widows from her network) always knew exactly every nonsense 🙂
Pianist schrieb:
Does anyone have an idea how to best find a really clever independent consultant in Berlin who will look at this with an open mind? Doesn’t @Tolentino have the best overview of the leading experts in the Berlin heating system scene?
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
T
taschenonkel21 Dec 2021 11:53We faced a similar decision between a ground source heat pump and a pellet heating system, and we chose the pellet heating system (Easyfire by KWB).
Our house was built in 1983, with a living area of 265m2 (2850 sq ft) plus a 130m2 (1400 sq ft) heated basement. Before the renovation to KFW 100EE standard, the heating oil consumption was about 3500-4000 liters (925-1056 gallons) per year, which I think is quite good considering the age and size. The oil heating system dates from 2015.
Ultimately, the deciding factor was the price. The ground source heat pump including 4 boreholes would have cost 65,000 EUR before a 50% subsidy (replacement of oil heating in the individual renovation roadmap). The pellet system (including hot water circulation, which the heating installer still provides) costs 44,000 EUR, with a 55% subsidy.
Would a pellet system be an option? Often, the space of the old oil tank can be repurposed.
Our house was built in 1983, with a living area of 265m2 (2850 sq ft) plus a 130m2 (1400 sq ft) heated basement. Before the renovation to KFW 100EE standard, the heating oil consumption was about 3500-4000 liters (925-1056 gallons) per year, which I think is quite good considering the age and size. The oil heating system dates from 2015.
Ultimately, the deciding factor was the price. The ground source heat pump including 4 boreholes would have cost 65,000 EUR before a 50% subsidy (replacement of oil heating in the individual renovation roadmap). The pellet system (including hot water circulation, which the heating installer still provides) costs 44,000 EUR, with a 55% subsidy.
Would a pellet system be an option? Often, the space of the old oil tank can be repurposed.
11ant schrieb:
Do you still remember the probably very interesting explanation?I also read it (long ago):
this narrative suggested that people with varicose vein issues might experience worsening of their problems due to overheating from below.
In my opinion, any effect would only be noticeable if you mostly walk barefoot on the floor. But who really does that?
Besides, the floor temperature is usually below 30°C (86°F), and at that level, the impact should be practically ZERO.
D
Deliverer21 Dec 2021 12:21Personally, I wouldn’t consider pellets. The CO2 emissions from burning wood are just as harmful to the climate as those from fossil fuels. And no – forests affected by bark beetles clearly show that this does not simply regrow.
Moreover, pellets require significant energy to produce and transport. High maintenance costs, fine dust issues, and overexploitation are additional concerns.
Regarding expensive ground probes: that’s no longer necessary. Air-to-water heat pumps have improved significantly in recent years. With R290 as the refrigerant, there have been major advances, especially at higher supply temperatures. An alternative for very cold regions could be a trench collector.
Moreover, pellets require significant energy to produce and transport. High maintenance costs, fine dust issues, and overexploitation are additional concerns.
Regarding expensive ground probes: that’s no longer necessary. Air-to-water heat pumps have improved significantly in recent years. With R290 as the refrigerant, there have been major advances, especially at higher supply temperatures. An alternative for very cold regions could be a trench collector.
Pianist schrieb:
That's just how it was done back then, but if the current solution is to replace the radiators with 33mm (1.3 inch) ones, then that’s a reasonable amount of work. Does anyone know how to find a smart, truly independent consultant in Berlin who will look at this without bias?It is what it is now. Complaining about the reasons from back then won’t help anymore. Focus on low-temperature radiators or keep the existing ones and consider pellet heating. But that isn’t cheap and only partially sustainable.
11ant schrieb:
Do you still remember the probably very interesting explanation?Underfloor heating with high flow temperatures is considered unfavorable because it can cause water retention/edema.
But it will probably please the lady for now.
We’ve already read plenty of feedback here on underfloor heating since feet don’t get as warm as expected.
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