ᐅ Is an additional €30,000 for geothermal heating worthwhile? Any experiences?
Created on: 14 Mar 2022 16:00
N
NBN2022
Hello everyone,
I would really appreciate your collective expertise here. Here’s the situation: We are currently building a turnkey semi-detached house with a basement through a developer in NRW. It’s a KfW 55 energy standard house, including subsidies.
Now we are faced with the question: Should we switch from gas (standard) to geothermal energy? According to the developer, the additional cost is about €30,000. The city unfortunately does not approve air-source heat pumps. It’s a long story, and we cannot change that. Our thoughts so far:
- Gas at this time of year... better not
- €30,000 surcharge: ouch!
- It’s too late to switch to KfW 55 EE, so we will probably only get the “old” KfW 55 subsidy. The higher subsidy for renewable energy would certainly have helped. However, the KfW hotline said this “upgrade” to renewable energy will not negatively affect our promised 55 standard loan (meaning: if you deviate significantly from the application, tough luck). Can anyone confirm this? The final approval for implementation is quite different.
- Would it make sense to install gas now and then switch to geothermal in 1–2 years with a different subsidy? That way, it might be possible to get a 30% grant, which is currently not available. It sounds crazy, but with these prices, we are considering every idea.
- Any other suggestions?
Thank you very much!
I would really appreciate your collective expertise here. Here’s the situation: We are currently building a turnkey semi-detached house with a basement through a developer in NRW. It’s a KfW 55 energy standard house, including subsidies.
Now we are faced with the question: Should we switch from gas (standard) to geothermal energy? According to the developer, the additional cost is about €30,000. The city unfortunately does not approve air-source heat pumps. It’s a long story, and we cannot change that. Our thoughts so far:
- Gas at this time of year... better not
- €30,000 surcharge: ouch!
- It’s too late to switch to KfW 55 EE, so we will probably only get the “old” KfW 55 subsidy. The higher subsidy for renewable energy would certainly have helped. However, the KfW hotline said this “upgrade” to renewable energy will not negatively affect our promised 55 standard loan (meaning: if you deviate significantly from the application, tough luck). Can anyone confirm this? The final approval for implementation is quite different.
- Would it make sense to install gas now and then switch to geothermal in 1–2 years with a different subsidy? That way, it might be possible to get a 30% grant, which is currently not available. It sounds crazy, but with these prices, we are considering every idea.
- Any other suggestions?
Thank you very much!
W
WilderSueden14 Mar 2022 20:00Benutzer200 schrieb:
What bad luck when the gas heating breaks down quite quickly and installing a new gas heating system is no longer possible as soon as the authorities block it. Yes, that would really be unfortunate 😉
NBN2022 schrieb:
3) Geothermal energy... at your own expense... what are "normal" costs for geothermal energy in a new build? I've read 18,000–25,000 and we also found 30,000€ expensive, still waiting to see the detailed breakdown. About 8,000–10,000 are for drilling, plus the heat pump itself. The drilling costs vary a lot depending on how deep you have to drill.
If you leave out a gas heating system, the builder also saves quite a bit: heater, connection, chimney. So an extra 30,000 is very high.
NBN2022 schrieb:
4) Incentives afterward: Are there "minimum waiting periods" after new construction? It’s crazy, new build 2022, gas out 2023 with incentives?? The system must be at least 2 years old and the building at least 5 years. For an "older building," that’s still very new 😉
WilderSueden schrieb:
Yes, that would really be unlucky 😉
Out of that, 8-10k is for the drilling, plus the heat pump itself. The drilling costs also depend heavily on how deep you need to drill.
If you do without a gas heating system, the builder saves quite a bit: heating unit, connection, chimney. In that sense, a 30k surcharge is very high.
The system must be no older than 2 years and the building at least 5 years old. For an “older building” still very new 😉Current prices for drilling are likely somewhat higher. A 110m (360 feet) deep drill including piping cost me around 8k, but that is probably a bit too small for 180m² (1,940 sq ft). I would rather calculate with 12k due to two drillings and increased prices (extremely high company capacity utilization at least here in NRW).W
WilderSueden14 Mar 2022 20:50Yes, my general contractor also mentioned that the prices for drilling are increasing. If I remember correctly, the drilling depth for us is about 80 meters (260 feet).
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Benutzer20014 Mar 2022 22:47NBN2022 schrieb:
For background: It is a "project-specific development plan" and it does not include provisions for an air source heat pump. I don’t know if this can be changed on such short notice. Once again the question: Why not use an air-to-water heat pump? What exactly does the development plan say? It does not need to allow an air-to-water heat pump, but explicitly forbidding it is, to my knowledge, not permitted. There can be bans on combustion systems (e.g., wood or pellet heating due to fine dust), otherwise this is a development plan, not a heating plan. An internally installed heat pump, as far as I know, cannot be prohibited.
NBN2022 schrieb:
Option B: Internal heat pump: We have requested information. The cost estimate is still pending. According to verbal information, it is almost as expensive as geothermal because the concrete basement has to be cut, etc. Don’t you have a basement staircase? The developer just isn’t willing to deal with it. That’s the reason. The unit is brought down via the stairs. Besides that, you need supply and exhaust air. That’s all there is to it.
Wow, I paid 31k for the entire heating and plumbing system, including 3 shower bathrooms and 2.5 kitchens, with a ground-source heat pump (I installed the ground loop myself), 270m2 (2,905 sq ft) of underfloor heating, and a central ventilation system for 2 residential units.
And honestly, I already thought that was quite expensive...
An additional 30k in extra costs is just nonsense.
And honestly, I already thought that was quite expensive...
An additional 30k in extra costs is just nonsense.
TmMike_2 schrieb:
Wow, for the entire heating and plumbing including 3 shower bathrooms and 2.5 kitchens with a ground-source heat pump (ground loop installed myself), 270m2 (2906 sq ft) of underfloor heating, and a central ventilation system for 2 residential units, I paid 31k.
And honestly, I already thought that was a lot...
An additional 30k cost is just nonsense..... No idea about the background... doesn’t really matter, congratulations on your price. But it should be noted for the general public that your price is not a benchmark. Otherwise, someone here might get worked up.
Under normal conditions, that’s completely unrealistic.
I also think a 30k surcharge is too much. But it doesn’t matter since it’s a developer. They can do whatever they want, you don’t have to accept it.
That includes about 10k for drilling, 5-10k additional cost for the heat pump and underfloor heating installation suitable for the heat pump, and the rest is margin and an unwillingness to reduce the mark-up.
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