ᐅ Is an additional €30,000 for geothermal heating worthwhile? Any experiences?
Created on: 14 Mar 2022 16:00
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NBN2022
Hello everyone,
I would really appreciate your collective expertise here. Here’s the situation: We are currently building a turnkey semi-detached house with a basement through a developer in NRW. It’s a KfW 55 energy standard house, including subsidies.
Now we are faced with the question: Should we switch from gas (standard) to geothermal energy? According to the developer, the additional cost is about €30,000. The city unfortunately does not approve air-source heat pumps. It’s a long story, and we cannot change that. Our thoughts so far:
- Gas at this time of year... better not
- €30,000 surcharge: ouch!
- It’s too late to switch to KfW 55 EE, so we will probably only get the “old” KfW 55 subsidy. The higher subsidy for renewable energy would certainly have helped. However, the KfW hotline said this “upgrade” to renewable energy will not negatively affect our promised 55 standard loan (meaning: if you deviate significantly from the application, tough luck). Can anyone confirm this? The final approval for implementation is quite different.
- Would it make sense to install gas now and then switch to geothermal in 1–2 years with a different subsidy? That way, it might be possible to get a 30% grant, which is currently not available. It sounds crazy, but with these prices, we are considering every idea.
- Any other suggestions?
Thank you very much!
I would really appreciate your collective expertise here. Here’s the situation: We are currently building a turnkey semi-detached house with a basement through a developer in NRW. It’s a KfW 55 energy standard house, including subsidies.
Now we are faced with the question: Should we switch from gas (standard) to geothermal energy? According to the developer, the additional cost is about €30,000. The city unfortunately does not approve air-source heat pumps. It’s a long story, and we cannot change that. Our thoughts so far:
- Gas at this time of year... better not
- €30,000 surcharge: ouch!
- It’s too late to switch to KfW 55 EE, so we will probably only get the “old” KfW 55 subsidy. The higher subsidy for renewable energy would certainly have helped. However, the KfW hotline said this “upgrade” to renewable energy will not negatively affect our promised 55 standard loan (meaning: if you deviate significantly from the application, tough luck). Can anyone confirm this? The final approval for implementation is quite different.
- Would it make sense to install gas now and then switch to geothermal in 1–2 years with a different subsidy? That way, it might be possible to get a 30% grant, which is currently not available. It sounds crazy, but with these prices, we are considering every idea.
- Any other suggestions?
Thank you very much!
W
WilderSueden14 Mar 2022 17:33The heating system is specified in the building permit / planning permission, so simply changing it isn’t really feasible if the authority objects. The issue with gas here is not only about the costs but also the fact that you certainly cannot replace this gas heating system with another gas heating system. Even considering grandfathering rights, I would be skeptical in the medium term. Owners of a Euro 5 diesel vehicle know what to expect in a worst-case scenario.
At this point, I would also lean towards an indoor unit. I can’t imagine the local authorities seriously banning that. A €30,000 (approximately $33,000) surcharge seems quite excessive to me.
At this point, I would also lean towards an indoor unit. I can’t imagine the local authorities seriously banning that. A €30,000 (approximately $33,000) surcharge seems quite excessive to me.
Somehow, I’m not following. If I switch from gas to an air-to-water heat pump in an existing building and the noise emissions are acceptable, the local authority wouldn’t know about it. So how do they ban it in new constructions? I would look for indoor units – you’ll never get a 30k (30 kW) system inside, and I wouldn’t want gas either.
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Oetzberger14 Mar 2022 17:51Official inquiry to the town council or mayor’s office on whether such a regulation is still justifiable in times when every cubic meter of gas must urgently be saved for political reasons. Including reporting in the local press. The town council will quickly adapt...
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Pinkiponk14 Mar 2022 18:43face26 schrieb:
P.S.: I am still curious to know the reason why air-to-water heat pumps are not approved! I am very interested as well. I’m not a fan of air-to-water heat pumps and would like to understand the reasons a municipality might have to prohibit them. So far, my preference is geothermal energy, and I really hope we can switch within 2-5 years.
NBN2022 schrieb:
Switching from gas (standard) to geothermal? According to BT, additional cost is about €30,000. We are also initially building with gas because air-to-water heat pumps are not an option for us.
NBN2022 schrieb:
- Is it practical to install gas heating now and then switch to geothermal in 1-2 years with different subsidies? We are hoping for that too. For now, we just want to live in a house with heating and hot water. If subsidies for geothermal become available, we want to make the switch. If our house manufacturer (prefabricated timber frame construction) had offered geothermal energy, we probably would have chosen it, even with the €30,000 (about $33,000) extra cost, although we would have had to save money elsewhere.
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Benutzer20014 Mar 2022 19:43WilderSueden schrieb:
The heating system is specified in the building permit / planning permission, so simply changing it isn’t that straightforward if the authorities object.What bad luck if the gas heating system breaks down quickly and a replacement gas heater is no longer allowed because of new regulations.Therefore – although the original poster still owes a few answers – prepare everything for a heat pump so that only the unit needs to be installed (maybe in 2025?).
Thank you all for your responses so far! They have given me/us a lot to think about!
To give some background: This is a "project-specific development plan," which does not allow for an air heat pump. I’m not sure if this can still be changed on such short notice.
Without this "very strict" development plan, I believe an air heat pump generally cannot be rejected. But in this particular case, it seems it can.
We are building with a general contractor: everything from the plot to the garage is handled by one company.
The general contractor also offers, at an additional cost, to downsize the planned underfloor heating and design it for a heat pump. However, they advise against retrofitting geothermal heating later. Reasons given: difficult to lay cables afterward, "hole" in the facade, cables in the basement, etc. Unfortunately, we lack knowledge about how "complex" retrofitting geothermal heating really is. Can anyone share insights on this?
Option B: Internal heat pump: We have inquired, but the estimate is still pending. According to verbal information, it is almost as expensive as geothermal, since the concrete basement must be cut, etc.
We could consider...
a) Gas – and then prepare for a switch in a few years: What else should be considered besides the underfloor heating for this?
b) Air heat pump: Seems to be "not desired" (noise and low efficiency were also mentioned) – as said, we are already in the middle of construction, so I’m not sure if a letter to the mayor would still help... and we definitely would not want to proceed without the general contractor’s consent, as they are the "builders."
3) Geothermal heating... at our own cost... What are the "normal" costs for geothermal in a new build? I have seen amounts between 18,000 and 25,000 euros and thought 30,000 euros was expensive; we are still waiting for a detailed cost breakdown.
4) Retroactive subsidies: Are there minimum waiting periods after new construction? It seems incredible—new house built in 2022, gas replaced in 2023 with a subsidy??
Oh, by the way: The house is 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) including the basement.
Thanks again!
To give some background: This is a "project-specific development plan," which does not allow for an air heat pump. I’m not sure if this can still be changed on such short notice.
Without this "very strict" development plan, I believe an air heat pump generally cannot be rejected. But in this particular case, it seems it can.
We are building with a general contractor: everything from the plot to the garage is handled by one company.
The general contractor also offers, at an additional cost, to downsize the planned underfloor heating and design it for a heat pump. However, they advise against retrofitting geothermal heating later. Reasons given: difficult to lay cables afterward, "hole" in the facade, cables in the basement, etc. Unfortunately, we lack knowledge about how "complex" retrofitting geothermal heating really is. Can anyone share insights on this?
Option B: Internal heat pump: We have inquired, but the estimate is still pending. According to verbal information, it is almost as expensive as geothermal, since the concrete basement must be cut, etc.
We could consider...
a) Gas – and then prepare for a switch in a few years: What else should be considered besides the underfloor heating for this?
b) Air heat pump: Seems to be "not desired" (noise and low efficiency were also mentioned) – as said, we are already in the middle of construction, so I’m not sure if a letter to the mayor would still help... and we definitely would not want to proceed without the general contractor’s consent, as they are the "builders."
3) Geothermal heating... at our own cost... What are the "normal" costs for geothermal in a new build? I have seen amounts between 18,000 and 25,000 euros and thought 30,000 euros was expensive; we are still waiting for a detailed cost breakdown.
4) Retroactive subsidies: Are there minimum waiting periods after new construction? It seems incredible—new house built in 2022, gas replaced in 2023 with a subsidy??
Oh, by the way: The house is 180 sqm (1,938 sq ft) including the basement.
Thanks again!
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