ᐅ Challenging Floor Plan, Plot, and Historic Building – Section 34
Created on: 11 Feb 2025 21:44
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buttyhome
Dear Forum,
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
First of all, we would like to introduce ourselves. We are a family of four and have now found a nice sloped plot in NRW. We are aware that it is considered a "challenging plot" in terms of buildability, but we have fallen in love with the location and the view. It is a total of 390 m² (4200 sq ft) of building land, with green space extending behind the plot. Currently, it is occupied by two buildings, the front one of which is a listed monument requiring renovation. The rear building is in such poor condition that it must be demolished. Of course, the monument must not be significantly disturbed within its ensemble, so a modern flat roof is unfortunately not possible. However, I am hopeful that we can connect the monument with our planned new building by a joint or gap.
First, the current situation: the front house is the monument, which I intend to renovate and use as a home office/guest room.
The front house currently has two floors, but ceiling heights no longer meet our needs due to our height, so we plan, as far as possible, to remove some walls and the ceiling between floors to expose the beams.
Now to our planned new build. We are working with an architect we really trust, who has designed and renovated some truly excellent houses within our circle of friends.
Development plan / restrictions
Plot size: buildable - 390 m² (4200 sq ft), with green space behind
Slope: yes, ascending towards the rear, with an incline between 8 and 12 %, so the house will sit at the lower part of the slope. Unfortunately, the view into the valley can only be enjoyed from the upper floor due to buildings on the opposite side of the street.
§34 construction: “mixed neighborhood”, single and two-story buildings with flat and pitched roofs, some 2.5-story pitched roofs
Edge development: apparently quite common in the neighborhood. My architect is more optimistic than I am that edge development will be allowed.
Number of parking spaces: 1
Number of stories: two full floors + pitched roof
Roof type: pitched roof
Style: must integrate with the half-timbered monument for an overall harmony (please no historicism, I prefer modern architecture, perhaps with wooden cladding)
Orientation: The architect insists on building the eaves side facing the street because of window areas. I am unsure if this is possible due to boundary constraints, so I suggest a gable orientation as an alternative. I am particularly interested in your ideas here! We are still in the very first planning phase.
Maximum height / limits: 2.5 stories
Client requirements
Number of occupants: 2 adults + 2 children
Ground floor space needs: master bedroom, 2 children's bedrooms, 2 bathrooms, separate cloakroom, either at the rear (slope) or in the basement: laundry room, storage, building services
Upper floor: large open-plan kitchen and living area with garden access, fireplace, guest toilet
Office: combined with guest room
Occasional overnight guests per year
Open or closed architecture: open plan
Traditional or modern design: modern
Open kitchen with island
Minimum dining seats: 8
Fireplace: yes
Music/speaker wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no
Carport
House design
Not yet available, we are still assessing the basic buildability
Designer: architect versus own ideas
Personal budget for house including fittings: initially open, we want to see what is possible
Preferred heating system: heat pump
If you had to give up something, which details or features
- can you do without: -
- cannot do without: large window front facing the garden with direct garden/terrace access
Here is the architect’s first concept. She assumes basic buildability including edge development and therefore wants to place the new build with the eaves side directly adjacent to the neighbor. I would prefer a longer joint/gap, but that would make the edge building length disproportionate. I find that unfortunate as I would like the new building positioned further back in the plot to create a larger front courtyard. This is the first idea currently being checked for feasibility by the building and monument authorities:
The extension toward the garden is optional and designed with a flat roof.
My idea would be to extend the building joint further, placing the entrance and cloakroom there, with the new building accessed above. This new building would be rotated to face with its gable. Because it would extend far into the slope, the ground floor would effectively become a basement, and the upper floor would have direct garden access at ground level. I would also need to encroach on the neighboring boundary, but I imagine this might be simpler as I am only planning a single story there. Would the house then have enough windows? You don’t want to orient large window fronts too much towards neighbors, but at least toward the garden I would like to have a large gable window area.
Thank you very much for your suggestions! What do you think is feasible? What are the pros and cons?
I am also still looking for a contour map. All the maps I find online are somewhat coarse. Is there an online resource for NRW? What options should I select in the NRW geoportal to get a good detailed representation?
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buttyhome13 Feb 2025 08:33K a t j a schrieb:
Unfortunately, I don’t understand what motivates you to go with this idea? To me, it only seems to bring disadvantages. First of all, the question is whether that much space is really necessary. Then more or less the garden is lost. The earthworks along with the related costs and building a story into the slope are also not really what you want at first. You’re probably right. That’s mostly what the architect says as well, and of course, she has the experience, unlike me. My reasons were:
- The garden extends significantly further at the back, so this doesn’t make a relevant difference, but in front of the house, on the side facing the evening sun, it would create a nice seating area. There is also evening sun further up on the slope, so it’s only a relative argument.
- If the house itself is positioned slightly higher, I’m hoping to be able to see over the neighbor’s roof from the upper floor.
- I imagine that the heritage authority is stricter the closer you build to the listed building.
And of course, you have strong arguments with the rest! I have no idea about the costs for the earthworks. I can place the car and trash bins on the left side of the house, so the yard still remains somewhat free.
It’s precisely because of important ideas like these that I’m sharing my project at such an early stage. Everything is still flexible.
H
hanghaus202313 Feb 2025 10:22Sorry, I think I replied to the wrong post.
K a t j a schrieb:
Unfortunately, I don’t understand what motivates you to pursue this idea? I only see disadvantages. First of all, the question is whether that much space is really necessary. Then, more or less, the garden is gone. The earthworks with the associated costs plus the floor level on the slope are also not exactly what you would want first. Yes, I believe that the space is necessary. If the slope is that steep, let’s say about one-third, there won’t be much room for living areas on the ground floor. The open area on the southeast side will at least allow one or two windows. On the upper floor, there is more space available.
Personally, I can also imagine creating a seating area in the adjacent courtyard with enough window surface. The kitchen, for example, could be placed there.
You just have to try out a lot of options.
I’m looking forward to the architect’s design. But I will also do some Tetris myself.
buttyhome schrieb:
the garden at the back extends much further Ah, I wasn’t aware of that, and it changes a lot.
buttyhome schrieb:
if the house is naturally built a bit higher, I hope to be able to see over the roof of the neighbor’s house opposite from the upper floor Okay, you mean that wouldn’t be possible otherwise?
ypg schrieb:
Yes, I think that the space is necessary. If the slope is that steep, let’s assume about one third, then there won’t be much room for living areas on the ground floor. But maybe you don’t need that much. The listed building will also be renovated. I would probably relocate the office there, but most importantly the technical equipment, if possible. That would save the utility room. But fundamentally, it’s true that you need to decide on which side of the house to place the terrace. That would be the starting point for all my decisions.
I would trust the architect on this.
In our ground floor, the rear wall is also built into the hillside or supports the hill.
We have the utility rooms, kitchen, dining, living area, wardrobe, and entrance downstairs. This makes it easier considering the limited options for installing windows.
Some acquaintances renovated an old house; they have a large open-plan kitchen and living area, one children’s room, and one study downstairs, and upstairs a living room, one children’s room, and one bedroom.
At the time, we didn’t alter the slope, and on the advice of the structural engineer, builder, and architect, the old wall was left in place and we built the house in front of it. Do you see what I mean?
Regarding building on the boundary and windows facing the neighbors, I would rely on the architect.
Our neighbor built on the boundary and was not allowed to install windows in areas where the minimum distance to us was not maintained.
In our ground floor, the rear wall is also built into the hillside or supports the hill.
We have the utility rooms, kitchen, dining, living area, wardrobe, and entrance downstairs. This makes it easier considering the limited options for installing windows.
Some acquaintances renovated an old house; they have a large open-plan kitchen and living area, one children’s room, and one study downstairs, and upstairs a living room, one children’s room, and one bedroom.
At the time, we didn’t alter the slope, and on the advice of the structural engineer, builder, and architect, the old wall was left in place and we built the house in front of it. Do you see what I mean?
Regarding building on the boundary and windows facing the neighbors, I would rely on the architect.
Our neighbor built on the boundary and was not allowed to install windows in areas where the minimum distance to us was not maintained.
B
buttyhome13 Feb 2025 14:14K a t j a schrieb:
Okay, you mean that wouldn’t be possible otherwise?Yes, opposite is a single-story gable-roof house with a large footprint and accordingly high roof. In the area along the street between the houses, the slope is very gentle, so you can only have a nice view for sure if you build two stories, move up the slope (but I think that gains only about one meter (3 feet)), or partially bury a basement.
K a t j a schrieb:
But maybe you don’t actually need that much. The listed building is also being renovated. I would probably relocate the office and especially the technical room there, if possible. That would save the utility room. But basically, it’s true that you have to decide on which side of the house to place the terrace. That would be the starting point for all my decisions.Moving the technical equipment into the listed building will certainly work. The utility room is currently there, but at the moment it’s connected with a power line from roof to roof. Clearly, the terrace and thus the kitchen must face the garden. To avoid being trapped in a “ditch” between the house and the slope, the kitchen belongs on the first floor. Either the first floor ends flush with the slope, or you need some kind of stairs or bridge from the kitchen that leads slightly higher up the hill. This also means building two stories (which the neighborhood allows). A loggia or balcony on the opposite side would then offer a combination of valley views and evening sun. I have many ideas for that.
The space layout on the ground floor will be more challenging. We need two children’s bedrooms, two bathrooms, and a master bedroom, even though the rear side of the house can hardly be used as living space if it’s positioned too far back. Alternatively, the attic can be converted, and one of the parents or children could move there. But I don’t think that separation would be ideal. You could probably gain some space by creating a building joint there, as you could place the initial area of the staircase there and save space on the ground floor. I hope you understand what I mean.
Thanks for your enthusiastic participation and ideas!
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