Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
Fortunately, our electrician had knowledge of KNX, but I specified where each cable should go. I installed the switches and presence/motion detectors myself and also sourced them. The electrician handled the actuators in the distribution board and at the heating circuit distributors.
The actuators with wiring can be tested without programming; for example, you can manually control the roller shutters via the actuator in the distribution box.
Overall, we spent 20,000 more than the general contractor’s standard package. However, this includes DALI-compatible recessed spotlights (in the bathroom and entrance), staircase lighting, additional network outlets, flush-mounted ceiling boxes for presence detectors, more power outlets than stated in the construction specification, a larger distribution board in the utility room, and a second distribution board in the attic, among other things.
The actuators with wiring can be tested without programming; for example, you can manually control the roller shutters via the actuator in the distribution box.
Overall, we spent 20,000 more than the general contractor’s standard package. However, this includes DALI-compatible recessed spotlights (in the bathroom and entrance), staircase lighting, additional network outlets, flush-mounted ceiling boxes for presence detectors, more power outlets than stated in the construction specification, a larger distribution board in the utility room, and a second distribution board in the attic, among other things.
S
Schnubbihh4 Jan 2024 16:23I will talk to the general contractor next week and see what is possible.
For example, I could imagine working with a KNX expert (nationwide in Germany, remotely?) to handle just the planning with the floor plan (what needs to go where?), and then have the local electrician simply do the wiring. It would be great if that works out.
For example, I could imagine working with a KNX expert (nationwide in Germany, remotely?) to handle just the planning with the floor plan (what needs to go where?), and then have the local electrician simply do the wiring. It would be great if that works out.
It is also possible to outsource the KNX configuration to external system integrators if there are gaps in expertise. Of course, this must be agreed upon with the electrician beforehand. The process can go as far as the system integrator largely planning the system, receiving the devices from the electrician or building owner, configuring them, and then sending them back to the construction site. Experience shows that this works very well with proper planning.
Has the issue of visualization already been clarified or discussed?
Has the issue of visualization already been clarified or discussed?
S
Schnubbihh4 Jan 2024 19:20Araknis schrieb:
It is also possible to outsource the KNX configuration to external system integrators if there are shortcomings in that area. Of course, this needs to be clarified with the electrician beforehand. It can go as far as the SI largely planning the system, receiving the devices from the electrician or the builder, configuring them, and sending them back to the construction site. Based on experience, this works very well with good planning.
Has the issue of visualization already been discussed or addressed?I just found a provider online.
3,000€ for the KNX planning and, if needed, delivery of all components pre-installed in the control cabinet to the construction site.
I can well imagine such a setup.
So far, I haven't given much thought to visualization, as it is not particularly important to me. Ideally, everything would run as subtly and automatically as possible without any interaction. Still, visualization is probably unavoidable.
A
Allthewayup4 Jan 2024 19:27I’m following this with interest. We haven’t implemented as many features using KNX (no presence detectors, no window contacts…), but for the electrical trade, we’ve reached about 70,000 EUR for a living area of 156m (512ft) plus a 75m (246ft) basement and a 30m (98ft) garage. Originally, 30,000 EUR was estimated for conventional wiring, then KNX came into play, and before we knew it, the quote had increased by an extra 40,000 EUR. There’s no labor included for the electrician because I want to avoid any disputes later if the system doesn’t work.
I have just reviewed the invoices again. It’s not 100% accurate since the centralized wiring added some extra cable meters here and there, but at least it gives an idea of what’s possible if the partner is willing. Listed are the gross surcharges charged by the electrician for KNX. I don’t know how much was invoiced to the general contractor for the contractually agreed standard. In total, over 3 floors plus a basic attic and garage, the following were installed: 149 sockets (16 of which are switchable/measurable), 36 LAN ports, 40 lighting points including LED, 20 window/door contacts, and 69 KNX device boxes.
Material costs (KNX cables, window contacts in the basement, switch boxes including chasing and installation, etc.): €1,952
Larger distribution cabinet: €666
Labor for complete wiring (including controlled residential ventilation and heat pump): €4,687
In addition, I personally purchased components totaling €15,120
Material costs (KNX cables, window contacts in the basement, switch boxes including chasing and installation, etc.): €1,952
Larger distribution cabinet: €666
Labor for complete wiring (including controlled residential ventilation and heat pump): €4,687
In addition, I personally purchased components totaling €15,120