Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
R
RotorMotor9 Jan 2024 09:25andimann schrieb:
only about 30 degrees 99% of the time it’s more like 24-26 degrees for me.
andimann schrieb:
that’s enough to warm and dry towels and provide some additional heating. Nope, that’s not enough. It’s barely 1 or 2 degrees above room temperature.
And the surface area of a towel radiator is incredibly small.
andimann schrieb:
Just a side question: What’s the deal with all these towel radiators? Why turn them on at all? Why even use electric ones? See above.
S
Schnubbihh5 Feb 2024 14:17A quick update from my side:
The general contractor has no problem with us completely taking over the electrical work. The credit for this is €13,500, which sounds fairly reasonable to me for a fairly basic electrical package in the standard setup.
I’m going to pursue two different approaches:
(1) Find a local electrician with KNX experience who can handle everything from planning to installation and commissioning
(2) Find a remote KNX/smart home expert to manage the planning and control cabinet, plus a local electrician for the “simple” execution tasks related to wiring and connection
If anyone has tips or experiences regarding this, they are very welcome. There seem to be online offers for smart home planning, hardware, and programming in the range of €15,000–25,000. If I then find an affordable local electrician for around €10,000, I might end up at a total of about €35,000. That sounds quite attractive to me so far.
The general contractor has no problem with us completely taking over the electrical work. The credit for this is €13,500, which sounds fairly reasonable to me for a fairly basic electrical package in the standard setup.
I’m going to pursue two different approaches:
(1) Find a local electrician with KNX experience who can handle everything from planning to installation and commissioning
(2) Find a remote KNX/smart home expert to manage the planning and control cabinet, plus a local electrician for the “simple” execution tasks related to wiring and connection
If anyone has tips or experiences regarding this, they are very welcome. There seem to be online offers for smart home planning, hardware, and programming in the range of €15,000–25,000. If I then find an affordable local electrician for around €10,000, I might end up at a total of about €35,000. That sounds quite attractive to me so far.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(2) Music in the bathroom: This is mainly about the guest toilet. As a guest, I at least appreciate not hearing every little noise and drip in there from people in the hallway.You’d rather do your business accompanied by elevator music than share all those details with the many spies in the hallway? Even the specialist doctor is covered by insurance.
Ypsi aus NI schrieb:
The ‘dining’ scene is activated at the counter in the open-plan living area (we have this scene set on several switches), kitchen lights dim, dining table lights turn on, Sonos speakers start playing, and the LED upstairs shows Aurora. Upstairs, this can be turned off again from two switches in the children’s bedroom (bed and door), in case the child doesn’t want to come for dinner.And during holidays at grandma’s, the children get to know comfort for the first time—crazy retro, fully analog, being called to dinner? No way.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
H
hausbau_phobos5 Feb 2024 15:09Go to the KNX user forum and look for a system integrator there.
Maybe as a reference for you:
For our relatively large single-family home, nothing fancy like LED gimmicks but a few special features (pool control, in addition to the front door also secondary doors + courtyard gate, etc.), we agreed on 15,000 EUR with the system integrator. This includes complete lighting and electrical planning, a "shopping list" for the hardware, supervision of the electrical installation, and the configuration of the entire system. We currently estimate hardware costs at around 15,000 to 20,000 EUR, although knowing myself, there will probably be some additional expenses.
Electrical work is separate; we are still waiting for the quote, which will probably be somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 EUR.
Maybe as a reference for you:
For our relatively large single-family home, nothing fancy like LED gimmicks but a few special features (pool control, in addition to the front door also secondary doors + courtyard gate, etc.), we agreed on 15,000 EUR with the system integrator. This includes complete lighting and electrical planning, a "shopping list" for the hardware, supervision of the electrical installation, and the configuration of the entire system. We currently estimate hardware costs at around 15,000 to 20,000 EUR, although knowing myself, there will probably be some additional expenses.
Electrical work is separate; we are still waiting for the quote, which will probably be somewhere between 30,000 and 40,000 EUR.
S
Schnubbihh5 Feb 2024 15:14hausbau_phobos schrieb:
Go to the KNX user forum and look for a system integrator there.
Maybe a reference point for you:
For our single-family home, relatively large, no fancy LED gimmicks but a few special features (pool control, in addition to the front door also side doors + courtyard gate, etc.), we agreed on 15,000 EUR (about 16,000 USD) with the system integrator. That includes complete lighting and electrical planning, a “shopping list” for the hardware, supervision of the electrical installation, and the configuration of the entire system. Hardware costs are currently estimated at around 15,000-20,000 EUR (16,000-22,000 USD), although knowing myself, there will probably be some extra.
Electrical work is separate; we’re still waiting for the quote, but it will likely be somewhere around 30,000-40,000 EUR (32,000-43,000 USD). Wow, that means your all-in costs will end up around 60,000-75,000 EUR (64,000-81,000 USD). That’s definitely too much for me.
At the moment, it’s still hard for me to estimate the costs, but I hoped to manage under 40,000 EUR (43,000 USD) all-in if done smartly and without cutting any features. Let’s see if I get a clearer picture after the first consultation meetings.
I’ve now found 7 providers across Germany with suitable offers. I’m going to start contacting them and see what comes out of it.
H
hausbau_phobos5 Feb 2024 16:21When I think about it, 80t is probably more realistic for us than 60t. But as I said, for a bigger, more extensive project, you can definitely achieve a slimmer solution.
However, based on everything I have read so far—and that’s quite a lot—I consider anything under 40t almost impossible, unless you only hire a system integrator for the planning and then implement everything yourself (maybe 10t planning, 10–15t hardware?).
That said, you do save somewhat in other areas, although it’s harder to quantify. For example, shading control, energy recovery ventilation (ERV), awning control, and similar aspects are then omitted from other trades because they’re already integrated or accounted for within KNX.
However, based on everything I have read so far—and that’s quite a lot—I consider anything under 40t almost impossible, unless you only hire a system integrator for the planning and then implement everything yourself (maybe 10t planning, 10–15t hardware?).
That said, you do save somewhat in other areas, although it’s harder to quantify. For example, shading control, energy recovery ventilation (ERV), awning control, and similar aspects are then omitted from other trades because they’re already integrated or accounted for within KNX.