Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
In the initial thread, I was first impressed by the many thoughts the original poster had put into it, the long list of wishes and ideas regarding the implementation. I only had to chuckle briefly at the budget and when I read “general contractor” ;-)
Overall, I’ve now read through the entire thread in one go and find many posts absolutely instructive, even though some are not 100% on topic. I hadn’t considered many of the ideas for usage, and I learned a lot of new things related to the implementation as well.
Regarding ERV, for example, I previously had a definite opinion (the one from “the forum”), which I thought was based on the facts I had. But the reasoning in @RotorMotor’s post makes me reconsider and maybe revise my opinion on this. In fact, my bathroom gets too cold in winter :-(. I could probably retrofit an ERV using a 24V line or wireless connection.
I’d also like to mention keywords like OpenHAB and ioBroker, etc. Based on these, everything can be integrated under one system.
P.S. We (as a company) have developed our “own” system based on this. A load management system will also be integrated in the future. But that’s not really my area and I don’t always get all the information immediately …
Overall, I’ve now read through the entire thread in one go and find many posts absolutely instructive, even though some are not 100% on topic. I hadn’t considered many of the ideas for usage, and I learned a lot of new things related to the implementation as well.
Regarding ERV, for example, I previously had a definite opinion (the one from “the forum”), which I thought was based on the facts I had. But the reasoning in @RotorMotor’s post makes me reconsider and maybe revise my opinion on this. In fact, my bathroom gets too cold in winter :-(. I could probably retrofit an ERV using a 24V line or wireless connection.
I’d also like to mention keywords like OpenHAB and ioBroker, etc. Based on these, everything can be integrated under one system.
P.S. We (as a company) have developed our “own” system based on this. A load management system will also be integrated in the future. But that’s not really my area and I don’t always get all the information immediately …
Araknis schrieb:
A prime example. Just because you don’t know how to do something like this, it doesn’t work in your world. Horizon with a radius of 0, and that’s the viewpoint. Then please explain to me exactly how this works in practice? Not just the theory that all the data exists somewhere, but how you actually arrive at a functional solution that is practical to use.
I see a lot of potential in commercial applications, but not so much in a typical single-family home. I just want to understand.
Does “no creativity” then mean you only look for a solution within the existing system (KNX / automation) after a problem arises?
Fuchur schrieb:
You really made me laugh now. You’re also the first person to tell me that this thing is for preheating a towel... I usually use it for drying towels or to warm the bathroom more than what the underfloor heating achieves. But yes, where’s the problem in combining time, presence in the house, temperature, and occupancy? It’s a one-time setup, then it just runs. That was not my idea, I just picked it up. If it’s only about preheating the room, that only applies for a few months of the year. In that case, it’s perfectly sufficient to set the radiator to turn on at scheduled times, for example when you normally get up in the morning. If you are away from home for a week in winter, you just turn it off. If you’re only away for a few days, you simply leave it running. It surely costs only a fraction of the money and time compared to full automation, and the end comfort gain is the same.
FloHB123 schrieb:
Well then, please explain to me exactly how this works in practice? Not just the theory that all the data is somehow available, but how you actually arrive at a functional solution that is practical. Although I’m not directly addressed, as a KNX fan, I’m happy to join in here 🙂 I assume you want warm towels after showering and therefore manually turn on the radiator before stepping into the shower. How do you automate this? The easiest way is with a humidity sensor that quickly detects the increase in moisture caused by showering. In KNX, I link the humidity value to the heating actuator using simple logic: if “humidity is higher than x%,” then “set heating y to z degrees.” Internally, the heating actuator receives the command from the logic module to turn up the bathroom heating whenever the humidity is high. To switch it off again, you create a second logic for when the humidity falls below a certain threshold. In KNX, sensors can either be polled cyclically or send updates only when the status changes.
If you have ideas and understand the logic behind it a bit, you can create wonderful and practical automations 😉
S
Schorsch_baut8 Jan 2024 14:46Category: We are looking for a problem to solve. 😀
Ramona13 schrieb:
Simple logic for the heating control: If "humidity is higher than x%" then set y to z degrees.
[...]
If you have ideas and understand the logic behind it a bit, you can create really wonderful and practical automations 😉 It sounds simple, but have you actually tried it in practice?
I’m imagining a quick shower where after 3 minutes the humidity rises above the set value—the heating kicks in—and by minutes 4 or 5 I’m rushing out of the shower because I’m in a hurry. Full of excitement expecting a KNX preheated towel, I’m disappointed to find it’s still cold and the radiator is only just getting lukewarm.
So, full of determination, you lower the humidity threshold so the heating comes on earlier. But then every time you ventilate during those humid, tropical-feeling spring nights, the heating turns on—OH NO!
Well, no problem, you just connect it with an outdoor humidity sensor—except no, then the radiator won’t turn on when it’s raining with high humidity outside either.
For me, that’s a bit too much. If someone really enjoys experimenting and continuously optimizing, great. But you have to consider so many possibilities to make it fully functional.
For me and most people I know who are currently building, a central control option for the shutters, some lighting control, and a few switched outlets are important—but that probably doesn’t require KNX, right?
@Ramona13 That was just an example from this post here.
I understand how it can be implemented technically. My point was that a solution should also be practical and make reasonable sense. I usually shower for about 5 minutes in the mornings during the week. That already makes it tight for having a warm towel ready. If you want the room a bit warmer, you simply turn the radiator on at a set time. So why KNX? Just use a simple timer switch and you’re done. Many radiators even have that integrated.
From my understanding, automation using KNX only makes sense where interaction between devices is desired that normally wouldn’t be connected. Like the example of the TV and the roller shutter. For everything else, the solutions from the individual manufacturers are better suited.
With a roller shutter, you could just as well install a wireless push button right next to the sofa and press it when needed. That’s easily achievable for under 20,000. 😉
I understand how it can be implemented technically. My point was that a solution should also be practical and make reasonable sense. I usually shower for about 5 minutes in the mornings during the week. That already makes it tight for having a warm towel ready. If you want the room a bit warmer, you simply turn the radiator on at a set time. So why KNX? Just use a simple timer switch and you’re done. Many radiators even have that integrated.
From my understanding, automation using KNX only makes sense where interaction between devices is desired that normally wouldn’t be connected. Like the example of the TV and the roller shutter. For everything else, the solutions from the individual manufacturers are better suited.
With a roller shutter, you could just as well install a wireless push button right next to the sofa and press it when needed. That’s easily achievable for under 20,000. 😉