Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
X
xMisterDx8 Jan 2024 21:35Food does not spoil immediately if the refrigerator breaks down and you are away from home for 4 hours. Do you order a new fridge by express delivery from the office as soon as the temperature rises? It could simply be that someone didn’t close the door properly...
Voice-controlled lighting... A nice gimmick...
But SmartHome means something different. A SmartHome controls the lighting automatically, based on presence sensors (PMs) and brightness sensors (BMs), as well as light levels and time of day... There is no need for voice control.
An employee who requires constant instructions at every step is not helpful. They must be able to complete their work independently.
There should be no differing opinions about underfloor heating. The system’s time constant is far too long to intervene via SmartHome and respond on an hourly basis. This is physics—physics does not have opinions.
Voice-controlled lighting... A nice gimmick...
But SmartHome means something different. A SmartHome controls the lighting automatically, based on presence sensors (PMs) and brightness sensors (BMs), as well as light levels and time of day... There is no need for voice control.
An employee who requires constant instructions at every step is not helpful. They must be able to complete their work independently.
There should be no differing opinions about underfloor heating. The system’s time constant is far too long to intervene via SmartHome and respond on an hourly basis. This is physics—physics does not have opinions.
X
xMisterDx8 Jan 2024 21:53RotorMotor has another day off from school tomorrow 😀
Ramona13 schrieb:
How do you automate this now? The easiest way is a humidity sensor that quickly detects when moisture rises due to showering. In KNX, I link the humidity value with the heating actuator using simple logic: If “humidity higher than x%,” then “set heating y to z degrees.” Internally, the heating actuator always receives the command from the logic module to increase the bathroom heating when humidity is high. To turn it off again, you create another logic rule for a humidity value below a certain threshold. You can either query the sensors cyclically in KNX, or they only send data actively when the state changes. andimann schrieb:
No, it won’t be that simple. In winter, bathroom humidity will fluctuate between 35 and 55%, depending on outdoor weather and moisture input from showering. In summer, expect around 50-75%, but then the radiator obviously shouldn’t turn on… So what now? You have to program it specifically for the heating period, and during transitional seasons there will still be cases where it doesn’t work properly. Attach temperature sensors to the hot water pipes for the shower and bathtub—problem solved. This is not theoretical; it has been done multiple times. If someone showers with very cold water that barely differs from room temperature, you can add a small flow sensor.
I have no further comments on the rest; you are all just going around in circles.
R
RotorMotor9 Jan 2024 09:00I wanted to quickly address a few points that got somewhat lost in the ERR discussion.
Ultimately, with this kind of “hobby,” a lot comes down to personal preference, but from my perspective, there are definitely many features that are fun/useful and others that don’t offer enough value for their cost.
Why only six rooms?
We have this in every room, and it’s definitely something I wouldn’t do differently.
Costs are low if you consistently avoid using manual switches, and the benefits are really high.
Hallways, kitchens, bedrooms, walk-in closets, and bathrooms make a lot of sense for daily use.
It doesn’t work perfectly in the offices, but there we still have manual switches.
Most smart home systems can do this out of the box.
The main thing is to plan for night lighting in the right locations throughout the house.
Are you sure you want roller shutters?
Before investing $50k in a smart home system, I’d definitely upgrade from roller shutters to venetian blinds (also called “raffstores”).
The increase in comfort is significantly greater.
With venetian blinds, you can adjust the slats based on sun position, temperature, and so on.
It’s one of the best smart home features.
Here, think carefully about which states you want to detect.
We distinguish between closed, tilted, and fully open based on the handle position.
It’s nice but also quite expensive.
For most uses, a single sensor would have been enough.
We only use the tilted state to set the venetian blinds to a “ventilation position.”
The electric lock is rather expensive; often a door opener is sufficient.
I find video doorbells unnecessary and costly for a single-family home, but that’s definitely a matter of taste.
As I explained in detail, a clear yes!
It costs very little and enables much more flexible use, settings, and monitoring.
I’m a bit skeptical about KNX outdoors (KNX Secure isn’t mature enough yet) and kept it minimal for us.
For cameras, carefully plan their locations and prepare the network accordingly.
I had to use surface-mounted boxes to run the network cables, so maybe there’s a better solution out there. ;-)
Very good. Saves money, looks clean, and is truly smart. But really good planning is required.
Yes, it’s worth it. Otherwise, the water cools down quite quickly.
We have those in several places. CO2 sensors are really expensive, though.
Therefore, I would just install a single sensor in the exhaust air of the central controlled ventilation system and regulate it that way.
I have them; they were quite expensive and especially a pain to wire.
I probably wouldn’t do it again. ;-)
I implemented this with Valetudo.
It’s actually independent of the smart home system.
Robonect planned. Also independent.
Also independent.
Currently, this is more or less the only use case we have for switchable outlets.
A lot really depends on the budget and the amount of work you can do yourself.
You have to be careful not to add too much on top.
Therefore, clearly prioritize what really makes sense and is enjoyable!
Ultimately, with this kind of “hobby,” a lot comes down to personal preference, but from my perspective, there are definitely many features that are fun/useful and others that don’t offer enough value for their cost.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(1) Starting with very simple functions like automatic lights on/off based on presence for 6 rooms (toilet, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
Why only six rooms?
We have this in every room, and it’s definitely something I wouldn’t do differently.
Costs are low if you consistently avoid using manual switches, and the benefits are really high.
Hallways, kitchens, bedrooms, walk-in closets, and bathrooms make a lot of sense for daily use.
It doesn’t work perfectly in the offices, but there we still have manual switches.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(3) In the entire upper floor (6 rooms), night lighting should turn on upon movement (e.g., for nighttime bathroom trips)
Most smart home systems can do this out of the box.
The main thing is to plan for night lighting in the right locations throughout the house.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(4) All roller shutters (16 units) should be individually controllable (based on time or sun position)
Are you sure you want roller shutters?
Before investing $50k in a smart home system, I’d definitely upgrade from roller shutters to venetian blinds (also called “raffstores”).
The increase in comfort is significantly greater.
With venetian blinds, you can adjust the slats based on sun position, temperature, and so on.
It’s one of the best smart home features.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(5) All windows/doors (17 units) with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings for rain, alerts when leaving the house, simple alarm system
Here, think carefully about which states you want to detect.
We distinguish between closed, tilted, and fully open based on the handle position.
It’s nice but also quite expensive.
For most uses, a single sensor would have been enough.
We only use the tilted state to set the venetian blinds to a “ventilation position.”
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
The electric lock is rather expensive; often a door opener is sufficient.
I find video doorbells unnecessary and costly for a single-family home, but that’s definitely a matter of taste.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(7) Digital control of underfloor heating per room
As I explained in detail, a clear yes!
It costs very little and enables much more flexible use, settings, and monitoring.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(8) Simple automation outdoors for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
I’m a bit skeptical about KNX outdoors (KNX Secure isn’t mature enough yet) and kept it minimal for us.
For cameras, carefully plan their locations and prepare the network accordingly.
I had to use surface-mounted boxes to run the network cables, so maybe there’s a better solution out there. ;-)
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(9) Wherever possible, we want to avoid manual switches; we prefer voice control or ideally fully automated without interaction
Very good. Saves money, looks clean, and is truly smart. But really good planning is required.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(1) Hot water + circulation only at certain times or when someone is home (is this financially worth it with efficient heat pumps?)
Yes, it’s worth it. Otherwise, the water cools down quite quickly.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(2) CO2 sensors, e.g., in the study, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (ventilation at max when I briefly leave for coffee and CO2 exceeds a certain value)
We have those in several places. CO2 sensors are really expensive, though.
Therefore, I would just install a single sensor in the exhaust air of the central controlled ventilation system and regulate it that way.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system + to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
I have them; they were quite expensive and especially a pain to wire.
I probably wouldn’t do it again. ;-)
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(4) Robot vacuum in the hallway that automatically starts when you enter and/or leave the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
I implemented this with Valetudo.
It’s actually independent of the smart home system.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(5) Lawn mower that only runs in certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
Robonect planned. Also independent.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(6) Automatic garden irrigation based on the forecasted weather (rainwater tank planned)
Also independent.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom that can be switched on/off as needed (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
Currently, this is more or less the only use case we have for switchable outlets.
A lot really depends on the budget and the amount of work you can do yourself.
You have to be careful not to add too much on top.
Therefore, clearly prioritize what really makes sense and is enjoyable!
Hello,
I actually think that’s a pretty cool gadget. Whether it makes sense from a communicative and educational point of view to replace direct verbal communication with light signals is probably another matter.
Best regards,
Andreas
Ypsi aus NI schrieb:
We have three potential children’s rooms on the upper floor and have addressed future communication like this: in every room there is a profile at the junction between ceiling and wall with an integrated LED light strip. Through KNX, different scenes (colors, as well as patterns like ‘Northern Lights,’ ‘Fire Department,’ etc.) can be displayed. We will be using this. The ‘dining’ scene is activated at the switch in the living area (we have this scene assigned to multiple switches), the kitchen lights dim, the dining table light turns on, Sonos speakers start, and the LED lights on the upper floor show Aurora.
I actually think that’s a pretty cool gadget. Whether it makes sense from a communicative and educational point of view to replace direct verbal communication with light signals is probably another matter.
Best regards,
Andreas
Hello,
Just a quick question: What is it with you all and these towel warmers? Why turn them on? Why electric ones at all? Just install a regular towel radiator connected to the main heating circuit. Sure, it only gets about 30°C (86°F) due to the low flow temperature, but that’s enough to warm and dry towels and provide some additional heat.
Best regards,
Andreas
Ramona13 schrieb:
I assume you want warm towels after showering and therefore switch the radiator on manually before you get into the shower.
Just a quick question: What is it with you all and these towel warmers? Why turn them on? Why electric ones at all? Just install a regular towel radiator connected to the main heating circuit. Sure, it only gets about 30°C (86°F) due to the low flow temperature, but that’s enough to warm and dry towels and provide some additional heat.
Best regards,
Andreas