Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
Schnubbihh schrieb:
Maybe a silly question, but is individual room control possible with a central ventilation system (Tecalor THZ 5.5 ECO)? According to the user manual, you can only select ventilation levels from 0 to 3, but I assume this applies to the whole house?
I would like to be able to control the supply air and/or exhaust air (bathroom) separately. Is that possible? No, not with typical single-family home ventilation systems. Of course, there are larger systems that allow room-by-room or zone control, but those are usually much more expensive. Additionally, the ductwork must be installed accordingly, meaning separate supply and exhaust lines for each room.
By default, you only have supply air in the bedroom and exhaust air in the bathroom — so you can imagine that individual room control is neither possible nor practical.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
How should this be handled if we want 19°C (66°F) in the bedroom but 22°C (72°F) in the living room? That should be possible, or am I misunderstanding? It’s complicated. Most current designs assume 22°C (72°F) for living areas (all rooms) and 24°C (75°F) for bathrooms (or sometimes 21°C/23°C (70°F/73°F)). Controlling temperatures linearly downward isn’t an issue; this mainly concerns heating load calculations and system design.
This is typically managed by allowing higher flow rates in the bathroom and/or spacing the heating pipes closer together there, allowing more heat output.
However, having seven different set temperatures throughout the house—possibly with varying adjacency to rooms at different temperatures or exterior walls—becomes problematic (yes, the number seven is completely arbitrary and exaggerated 😉 ). Larger temperature differences between rooms, as mentioned, are also more difficult to achieve.
Regarding ventilation, what is additionally possible: the ventilation system likely has a bypass function allowing cold outside air to be supplied at night without heat recovery. But this affects all rooms and is typically only used in summer.
As you correctly pointed out, ventilation is similar to heating in that the airflow rate is controlled for the entire system, and all rooms are supplied. There are fixed airflow restrictors per room (set once during installation), so, simply put, for example, the airflow in the bedroom might always be 20% lower than in the living room. To achieve true individual room control (economically), you would need to use decentralized ventilation systems.
I configured KNX myself (with DALI for lighting), starting with no prior experience. Currently, there are no advanced features, but everything works as desired. Getting started with ETS is relatively easy. A big advantage is that you can implement everything exactly as you want. Many settings are adjusted only after living in the house and realizing what makes sense.
Depending on the setup, the Home version for 64 actuators is sufficient. It costs under 300 EUR (including a voucher from KNX.org) if you take a free course. For a typical single-family home with only a few switches, this should be enough.
For the underfloor heating, we use actuators that are either fully open or closed.
Depending on the setup, the Home version for 64 actuators is sufficient. It costs under 300 EUR (including a voucher from KNX.org) if you take a free course. For a typical single-family home with only a few switches, this should be enough.
For the underfloor heating, we use actuators that are either fully open or closed.
S
Schnubbihh4 Jan 2024 14:23mr.xyz1 schrieb:
I programmed KNX (with DALI for lighting) myself, starting with zero prior experience. At the moment, nothing fancy, but everything works as desired for now. Getting familiar with the ETS software is relatively easy. A big advantage is that you can implement everything exactly the way you want. Many settings are only adjusted once you live in the house and see what makes sense.
Depending on the setup, the Home version for 64 actuators may be sufficient, costing less than 300 EUR (including a voucher from KNX.org if you take a free course). For a typical single-family house with only a few (!) switches, this should be enough.
For the underfloor heating, we use actuators that are either open or closed. Good to hear this is possible. Could you share some information about the wiring costs? Doesn’t the electrician want to at least do some basic programming to test the wiring and components? Or is it possible to buy and connect the individual components yourself, which might save some money?
That always depends on the specific arrangement. I worked with a building supervisor who had an electrician permanently contracted. I agreed with the electrician that he would install the wiring and build the control cabinet. I provided a plan indicating where everything should go and which cables were needed where. I sourced and configured the components myself and handed them over to the electrician for installation in the control cabinet. I installed all other components myself. The configuration was designed so that all basic functions could be tested during handover and then gradually adjusted piece by piece after moving in.
I would have to check the additional cost for the wiring and control cabinet installation, but from memory, it was around 2,000-3,000 euros.
However, that is not the usual case. Most of the time, there are only inflated markups and no option for self-supply.
I would have to check the additional cost for the wiring and control cabinet installation, but from memory, it was around 2,000-3,000 euros.
However, that is not the usual case. Most of the time, there are only inflated markups and no option for self-supply.
Wiring can also be tested without any KNX actuators. You can also pre-program components and deliver them fully configured to the construction site.
Installing components is always a bit tricky – flush-mounted actuators, sensors, and switches/touch panels can be installed by yourself; it’s actually quite simple. Installing the distribution panel is a bit more complicated/delicate – here you have to hope that your electrician cooperates, meaning they follow the instructions for installation and wiring. Alternatively, there is the option to have the distribution panel including KNX actuators designed and delivered ready for installation – then your electrician only needs to feed in the cables and connect them to the terminals. They don’t need to know anything about KNX.
Depending on the electrician, you can probably source the components yourself. However, not all (many?) electricians agree to this due to warranty, profit margins, etc.
Installing components is always a bit tricky – flush-mounted actuators, sensors, and switches/touch panels can be installed by yourself; it’s actually quite simple. Installing the distribution panel is a bit more complicated/delicate – here you have to hope that your electrician cooperates, meaning they follow the instructions for installation and wiring. Alternatively, there is the option to have the distribution panel including KNX actuators designed and delivered ready for installation – then your electrician only needs to feed in the cables and connect them to the terminals. They don’t need to know anything about KNX.
Depending on the electrician, you can probably source the components yourself. However, not all (many?) electricians agree to this due to warranty, profit margins, etc.