Hello dear community,
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
we are just beginning to explore the topic of Smart Home and I would appreciate your opinions on our current (early) planning.
Starting point:
- New build of a single-family house with a general contractor, approximately 160m² (1720 sq ft) of living space, 3 children’s bedrooms + home office
- Building permit / planning permission currently pending; construction start planned for spring
- I would like to create and customize the Smart Home logic myself; I am willing to study it in depth and enjoy the topic
Planned automation:
(1) Starting with very simple functions such as automatic lights on/off with presence detection for 6 rooms (WC, utility room, storage room, upstairs and downstairs hallway, staircase)
(2) In the guest bathroom, music should also turn on with presence detection and possibly increase ventilation slightly
(3) Throughout the entire upper floor (6 rooms), a night light should turn on at night when movement is detected (e.g., for nighttime bathroom visits)
(4) All blinds / shutters (16x) should be controllable individually (based on time or sun position)
(5) All windows/doors (17x) equipped with tilt sensors to detect open windows, e.g., warnings in case of rain, alerts when the house is left, simple alarm system
(6) Front door with electric lock and video doorbell
(7) Underfloor heating digitally controllable per room
(8) Simple outdoor automations for lighting (motion sensors) and cameras
(9) We want to avoid push buttons wherever possible; we prefer voice control or even better fully automated operation without any interaction
Still open / to discuss:
(1) Hot water and circulation only at certain times or when someone is at home (is this financially worthwhile with efficient heat pumps at all?)
(2) CO2 sensors, for example in the home office, to control ventilation based on presence/absence (e.g., ventilation set to maximum if I quickly leave for coffee and the CO2 value exceeds a certain threshold)
(3) Networked smoke detectors as an alarm system and to hear a fire alarm from the ground floor in the bedroom (?)
(4) Robot vacuum cleaner in the hallway that starts automatically when entering or leaving the house (to clean dirt in the hallway)
(5) Lawn mower that only operates under certain weather conditions and when no one is in the garden
(6) Automatic garden irrigation depending on the forecasted weather (cistern planned)
(7) Towel heater in the bathroom to switch on/off selectively (e.g., warm bathroom in the morning, warm towels right after showering)
(8) "Public address" system from the kitchen to all children’s bedrooms (“Dinner is ready”)
Questions:
(1) Do the planned automations make sense so far?
(2) Do you have any comments and/or recommendations regarding the open points? Are there any interesting automations we are missing?
(3) What is the best way to plan such a Smart Home with a general contractor? They only offer a lump sum package through their electrician with a “Smart@Home” system. I would prefer to plan with a specialized electrician. Is it possible to exclude this trade from the contract and award it separately, or would this cause problems?
(4) Am I correct in assuming that a KNX wired system would be suitable for the above use cases? As a comparison, I roughly calculated Homematic IP flush-mounted installation costs between 5,000–10,000€ as an additional investment (besides the standard general contractor electrical work). How could I make a reasonable cost estimate for KNX? Background: If a wireless solution costs me 10,000€, I want to carefully consider whether I am willing to spend 30,000€+ on KNX.
(5) Is it realistically possible in such a Smart Home to almost completely do without push buttons in the rooms? (We find voice control much more convenient and currently use a lot of Alexa)
Schnubbihh schrieb:
How should this be handled if we want 19°C (66°F) in the bedroom but 22°C (72°F) in the living room?This becomes tricky in directly adjacent rooms (including both sides of the ceiling); a full 3 Kelvin difference is quite significant. Temperature "control" through relatively reduced heating is more complicated nowadays than before the energy-saving regulations, and it becomes even more difficult with mechanical ventilation with heat recovery.https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Schnubbihh schrieb:
You probably won’t get around using a visualization anyway.Definitely not. Mainly because visualizations do more than just display information; they also provide logic in a relatively simple way and can act as interfaces to other systems. Representing your requirements only on the KNX level is possible but much more complex, as everything has to be done using logic blocks, which can quickly become cumbersome depending on the volume. In addition, you will likely want to display some values, view evaluations, centrally control things, create scenes, and so on. And with a house like this, you will definitely want to adjust or check something remotely at some point. At the latest then, a visualization becomes essential.I generally consider the integration of the heat pump overrated, since you don’t interfere with its internal control anyway, and any individual room control usually takes place outside or after the heat generation at the heating circuit valves. However, with some heat pumps, it is possible to input indoor temperatures via KNX, which allows you to avoid the unsightly internal room sensor.
By the way, I also agree with those who are against an ERR (external room regulator). You simply don’t need it with a proper system design. But if you have KNX, adding it later in the software is very quick if desired. Temperature sensors on the switches can measure the temperatures, and a heating actuator, if not already installed, can be quickly retrofitted in the heating circuit manifold. However, this should definitely receive a bus line—at least as a precautionary measure.
R
RotorMotor4 Jan 2024 22:02I would never do without ERR in KNX.
What I would not do again with KNX in hindsight: switchable sockets.
And if measuring, then only active power. Pure current measurement is far too inaccurate with all the switched-mode power supplies.
I don’t have visualization. It would sometimes be a nice toy, but so far it’s not worth spending so much time on it just to occasionally override something.
What I would not do again with KNX in hindsight: switchable sockets.
And if measuring, then only active power. Pure current measurement is far too inaccurate with all the switched-mode power supplies.
I don’t have visualization. It would sometimes be a nice toy, but so far it’s not worth spending so much time on it just to occasionally override something.
S
Schnubbihh4 Jan 2024 22:05RotorMotor schrieb:
I would never do without ERR in KNX.
What I wouldn’t do again with KNX in hindsight: switchable sockets.
And if you measure, then only active power. Pure current measurement is far too inaccurate with all those switched-mode power supplies.
I don’t have a visualization. It would be a nice gadget sometimes, but so far it’s not worth spending that much time on it just to occasionally overwrite something. Do you have more detailed reasons for your statements? I’m very interested because it somewhat contradicts the opinions in the forum.
So why ERR? Why no switchable sockets?
R
RotorMotor4 Jan 2024 22:23Schnubbihh schrieb:
So why ERR?Because it significantly increases comfort at relatively low cost. When heating, rooms that become too warm due to occupants, running appliances, or sunlight are automatically turned down. This prevents unnecessary overheating, which saves heating energy and also improves comfort.
Those who use the heat pump for cooling benefit twice from the ERR.
Who wants to reverse the thermal balancing twice a year?!
Automatically avoiding cooling in bathrooms and similar areas during cooling makes a lot of sense in my opinion.
Schnubbihh schrieb:
Why not a switched outlet?We have many outlets that are both switchable and measurable because this was often recommended online as a cool feature. It required a lot of planning effort, high implementation costs, a lot of configuration work, and the actual benefit is really small.
We hardly ever use it. Fewer and fewer devices handle having their power cut off.
And nothing is more annoying than plugging something into an outlet only to find it’s off and needs to be turned on first.
As for the argument that it’s great for Christmas lights... I’d rather just leave those running.
J
jens.knoedel4 Jan 2024 22:44RotorMotor schrieb:
Because it significantly increases comfort at relatively low cost.
When heating, rooms that get too warm due to occupants, running appliances, or sunlight are automatically cooled down. This prevents unnecessary overheating, which can save heating energy and also improve comfort. With a properly designed heating system, it is even more comfortable NOT to use the ERR (energy recovery regulator). The entire system, including the heating circuits in sun-exposed rooms, adjusts itself correctly on its own.
Apart from that, underfloor heating anyway regulates, even with solar gain, with such a delay that shutting off by the ERR only becomes relevant in the evening or at night.
RotorMotor schrieb:
Those who also use the heat pump for cooling benefit twice from the ERR. You know that proper cooling doesn’t really work with underfloor heating, right? Then please install a suitable humidity sensor in all rooms or at least in the manifold area. Otherwise, you can simply set a supply temperature in the underfloor heating that remains comfortable and still avoids dew point issues.
I also use the cooling function – but without ERR and without dew point/humidity sensors. Just switch it on and run it.
By the way, what kind of rooms are you referring to with “&Co”? What’s the point of not cooling rooms? It’s just as illogical in a house as not heating them.
RotorMotor schrieb:
We have many sockets that can be switched and measured because this was often recommended online as a cool feature. Cool feature. I agree. Cool, but nobody really needs it.