ᐅ House Construction Planning: Timber Frame House, Log Cladding, Single-Slope Roof

Created on: 15 Aug 2023 09:12
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Paswina
Dear Forum,

I would like to present our house plan here for discussion. If I’m in the wrong forum, please feel free to move this post 🙂 Thanks! I usually read more than I post, so please forgive any beginner’s mistakes 🙂

In spring 2023, we received a letter from our landlord complaining about various issues. These apparently had been bothering him for a long time, which led us to believe that living together in this “multigenerational complex” no longer made sense for us. The neighborhood relationship is “poisoned.” However, the rental market in our city is completely crazy. My mother is often quickly enthusiastic about owning a home, so she spent a lot of free time searching for building areas for us. And she found one! In a small village of about 2,500 inhabitants in the middle of Rheinhessen, close to the highway and a train station, allowing me to manage my two days of office work without an expensive diesel car. The schools in the neighboring communities were also looking for teachers, so my girlfriend will start her new job there in September. Once the house is built and we’ve moved next year, her commute by train will only be 5 minutes.

Back to the building area. Around that time, I often read in the newspaper that some building plots were being returned. But building was never really an option for us, so we had relatively little equity. I emailed the mayor to ask if there was still a plot available. His answer: “Choose one!” He sent the plan, and we went there to see the plots in person. We focused on a small 320 sqm (3,444 sq ft) plot on the edge of the fields. However, when we tried to reserve it after a few days, the mayor unfortunately dashed our hopes: that plot had since been reserved by someone else! Slightly disappointed, we looked at the plan again and searched for the next best plot. This one was immediately €40,000 (about $44,000) more expensive... but at that point, we had no idea what everything would cost 🙂 We reserved this plot promptly and received confirmation of our reservation.

Meanwhile, I diligently ordered catalogs from many timber house builders. My girlfriend quickly decided it would be a timber house. Many houses from various manufacturers are truly beautiful, but unfortunately, also unaffordable for us. So we quickly focused on Talishaus as our first choice. Number two was Helios wooden houses from Hattstedt (about 10 minutes from Husum, where Talishaus is located). We also contacted Talishaus and received two offers: one for a bungalow (for the smaller plot) and another for a two-story house with a shed roof, as we currently live in a small house with a shed roof. But the prices brought us back down to reality again. So I picked a 1.5-story house from the Helios catalog and requested an offer for it.

We know the company Helios because my mother built with them in 2015. She said from the start that she had compared many offers and kept coming back to Helios. With each new offer I requested from other builders, it became more and more likely that we would build with Helios as well.

The contact is always friendly and helpful. The company has only five employees, so you always speak directly to the senior manager. We like their houses, the floor plans can be customized without any problems (which is always possible with timber houses), and the shed roof is also an option. Since my girlfriend is an art teacher, she visualized our house ideas for us. (I have attached two images; I’m not sure if they belong in the middle of the text or at the end).

Because our preferred plot allows it and the development plan doesn’t specify ridge direction, we want to orient the shed roof southwards. We also tried placing the house directly against the left or right boundary but didn’t like it. The development plan limits the maximum height to 7 m (23 ft) for houses with a roof pitch under 15°. The high side reaches 7 m (23 ft) with an interior height of 3.23 m (10 ft 7 in), and the low side is 2.32 m (7 ft 7 in) inside. We are also planning a small porch on the south side with space for bikes and possibly trash bins. We plan to add a seating area in the remaining space later.

It was clear to us, also because of the limited equity, that we definitely want to build with subsidies. Initially, we considered KfW with QNG certification, but the more offers and information I collected, the more we focused on the usual “climate-friendly new construction” without QNG.

The floor plan was from the very first version by the builder, but it only shares the exterior dimensions with the current plan. The attached house elevation was also drawn by my girlfriend and was mostly relevant for the window layout (the labeling of compass directions and house sides is correct, but the roof isn’t!).

We will probably receive the Helios plans soon, which will help us visualize everything better – I’ll update here then 🙂

Last week, we visited the company in person and met the window maker, the stair builder, and spoke with the electrician. We also had a short house tour with the junior manager, who just finished building a house.

Enough talking, here’s the house info:

Exterior walls:
- Pine log cladding 70x145 mm (3x6 inches) with chalet milling, with exposed end grain wood protected by solid wood covers
- Remmers HK glaze
- 16 mm (0.6 in) ventilation strip
- 16 mm (0.6 in) DWD board as wind barrier
- 200 mm (8 in) timber frame with insulation WLG 032 (thermal conductivity)
- 15 mm (0.6 in) OSB for vapor barrier
- Installation cavity 40x60 mm (1.5x2.4 in) with 60 mm (2.4 in) insulation WLG 035
- 12.5 mm (0.5 in) gypsum board

Roof:
- Shed roof 7° pitch
- 1 m (3.3 ft) roof overhang
- Cladding 19x96 mm (0.75x3.75 in) profiled wood
- Glaze included
- DWD board as roof sheathing, counter battens 25x40 mm (1x1.6 in), smooth-edged boards 21x195 mm (0.8x7.7 in)
- Anthracite trapezoidal sheet metal roofing
- Zinc gutter
- 240 mm (9.5 in) insulation WLG 032
- 40 mm (1.6 in) mineral wool insulation
- 40x60 mm (1.5x2.4 in) battens
- Vapor barrier

Interior walls:
- 60x80 mm (2.4x3.1 in) structural timber
- 12.5 mm (0.5 in) gypsum fiberboard
- 60 mm (2.4 in) soundproof mineral wool insulation
- Water-resistant gypsum board in bathrooms/WC

Ceiling:
- Rough-sawn boards 24 mm (1 in)
- 100 mm (4 in) mineral wool insulation
- 12.5 mm (0.5 in) gypsum fiberboard

Note: We’re currently considering exposed beams in the ground floor...

Windows/doors:
- Rekord company from Itzehoe
- quadro! blue for KfW 40 standard
- 86 mm (3.4 in) installation depth
- RC2N security class
- Exterior and interior window sills and cladding included

Package price: €115,950 (about $128,000)

External sealing installation: €35,900 (about $40,000)

Complete assembly: €69,650 (about $77,000)

Energy-efficient foundation slab €22,000 (about $24,300) (including slab for porch, which might be omitted)

Carport 3.5 m x 8 m (11.5 x 26 ft) with shed 3.5 m x 2.5 m (11.5 x 8 ft): €7,250 (about $8,000)

Electrical installation according to our requirements: €22,000 (about $24,300) (including Cat 7 network in living rooms, wall box preparation, and power supply to shed/carport)

Sanitary installation according to our requirements: approx. €16,000 (about $17,700) (2 showers, 2 toilets, 1 bathtub, 1 standard sink on the ground floor, and 1 large sink on the upper floor – sinks will be sourced by us separately)

Building application including structural calculation, energy saving regulations, energy certificate: €3,500 (about $3,900)

Externally contracted or self-purchased:
- Earthworks (budgeting €10,000)
- Infrared heating €5,500 (offered at €9,500)
- Photovoltaic system 20 kWp with 10 kWh battery, offer €32,000
- Floors (solid wood planks as plank flooring, if feasible) €6,000
- Domestic water heat pump €2,500
- 10,000-liter (2,642 gallon) cistern €4,000
- Energy efficiency expert €8,250

That’s the house in a nutshell.

The photovoltaic system is this large because a) we oriented the house to the south for this purpose, b) it’s the only thing that generates income, and c) otherwise, we would have to install a green roof. We also plan to green the porch roof. An electric car is planned in the medium term. We initially planned a ventilation system, but it was dropped for cost reasons; currently, I’m looking into decentralized ventilation systems. An air conditioning system was also planned but cut for budget reasons.

I think that’s it. Let the discussion begin 🙂

Thanks!

Best regards,
Paswina

Top-Down-Plan eines Grundstücks mit Haus, Garten und Wegen.

Kleines Hausmodell mit Solaranlage auf dem Dach in einer Vorstadt-Straßenansicht

Grundriss eines Hauses: EG (Wohnen, Diele, HWR) und OG (Eltern, Kinder, Büro, Waschen/Trocknen).

Vier Fassaden eines hellgrauen Hauses mit Fenstern; West-, Süd-, Nord- und Ostansicht.

Katasterkarte mit Parzellen, Nummern 26,30,31,32 und Flächenangaben in m².
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alles3d
15 Aug 2023 12:04
hanghaus2023 schrieb:

Here is a cleaner floor plan.
hausbauplanung-holzstaenderhaus-blockbohlenfassade-pultdach-638175-1.png


Who created these images?

I prefer this floor plan.
11ant15 Aug 2023 12:12
-LotteS- schrieb:

At the latest, @11ant will ask: Can you please share the zoning plan so I can search for it on Google? That way, we can get a better idea of whether it fits with your plans at all.
Paswina schrieb:

You can find the zoning plan under: Neubaugebiet Armsheim Im Pfad. On the municipality’s website under "Downloads."

I think it’s safe to say even without that that a Tussikrallen-style roof overhang will require stepping back from the building limits.

Otherwise, I’m probably unnecessary here: if the homeowner’s mother is satisfied with the provider and evaluated the relationship between the kit price and the final price just eight years ago, then the decision is likely already made and one of the key questions settled. And there really aren’t any shoddy workmanship issues with timber houses in this sense. ;-)

I would avoid having a pleasant trash bin smell on the siesta veranda.
If I remember correctly, I should also tag @Holzhäuschen and @neo-sciliar into the thread (?)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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Paswina
15 Aug 2023 12:18
-LotteS- schrieb:

By purchase incidental costs, I meant real estate transfer tax and notary/land registry fees 🙂 That should roughly fit with the 10k... So approximately a 520,000 budget minus 150,000 for the plot, etc. = 370,000 for a turnkey all-inclusive house, minus the 20,000 estimated additional construction costs from you (excluding earthworks and architect/energy consultant, which you have as separate items) and a 30,000 euro buffer. The garden is initially excluded or is that basically your buffer?

Roughly 8x11m - 20% wall ratio, two full stories = about 140 sqm planned net living area? 370k remaining budget after buying the plot - 30k planned buffer = 340k, which results in approximately 2,450 EUR per sqm of living space including additional construction costs and without (!) planned owner labor apart from painting... I suspect the pricing from the house providers you’re using might be pre-COVID or missing some items – you definitely need to watch out! Of course, it doesn’t always have to be 3,000-3,500 EUR per sqm, but prices below 2,500 EUR per sqm are usually only achievable if you basically do almost everything yourself...

How much upgrade potential is there with your builder? Do they also paint the facade? If not, that can’t be done over a weekend just by applying two coats, since besides paint you also have other consumables, as well as the scaffolding being needed longer or even reassembled. Is the waterproofing of the foundation slab included or is that done on site? Drainage around the house? What about the electrical and plumbing costs you mentioned, are those base prices or already upgraded? I don’t see anything about screed... Will the carport be assembled or just delivered as a kit? Keep in mind that you’ll need to prepare the foundation accordingly; you can’t just place it on the lawn. Who provides the scaffolding and sets up the construction site? Do you need a compacted crane pad? Waste disposal, containers, who removes excess soil? That can quickly add up. Do you have a construction manager/site supervisor/surveyor? The cistern is a good idea, but the earthworks for it, the connection, pump and piping also need to be factored in.

Then the walls... Are they finished just up to drywall? Are you planning to put wallpaper on directly or plaster/prime/sand...? Will you install the hardwood floors yourselves? What about tiles in wet rooms? I don’t see mention of stairs... Are they included? Does assembly come with them? Are there delivery costs for the kit?

I’m sure I could think of more... But since we are currently also planning with a kit house, we’re pretty well versed on this... Sorry for the wall of text – it was more brainstorming!
- The garden is excluded.
- My girlfriend wants to paint the facade. I already told her it’s a lot of work...
- Waterproofing of the foundation slab probably not included… do you mean the plinth?
- Drainage around the house has not yet been considered.
- Screed on the upper floor is included; the ground floor nowadays is smooth concrete.
- Electrical is already upgraded (more sockets and network cabling), the switch series is still Busch-Jaeger, I believe.
- Carport is just a kit, possibly assembled later or negotiated with the tradespeople...
- Foundations for carport and shed cost 2,750, but that’s an overall price; we probably don’t want that. Point foundations should be sufficient for the carport in our opinion. Only the shed needs a slab.
- Scaffolding and construction site setup are the developer’s responsibility and are included in the estimate.
- No crane pad needed.
- The construction company provides the container.
- The plot is level, slightly lower than the surrounding access roads.
- You’re right, earthworks for the cistern are not included in the estimate yet, but they shouldn’t significantly increase costs. Connection either done by the earthworks contractor, the plumber, or my uncle, who is a plumber.
- Interior walls likely to be plastered, primed, sanded – either by ourselves or subcontracted to a drywall specialist; no wallpaper planned. But that’s my girlfriend’s task 🙂
- Tiles are additional, included in the floor estimate; my girlfriend will probably do this herself, just on the shower walls.
- The staircase is included: 4,250 for the stairs and 1,250 for assembly.
- Delivery costs are included.

Thank you very much for your comments! 🙂
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Paswina
15 Aug 2023 12:20
11ant schrieb:

I think it’s safe to say that a Tussikrallen-style roof overhang will require moving away from the building boundaries.

Otherwise, I’m probably unnecessary here: if the mother of the client is satisfied with the provider and evaluated eight years ago how the kit price compares to the final price, then both the decision and one of the most important questions are likely already settled. And there are no shoddy workmanship issues with timber houses in this sense ;-)

I would avoid the smell of trash bins on the siesta veranda.
If I remember correctly, I should call in @Holzhäuschen and @neo-sciliar to the thread (?)

Hello 11ant! The decision isn’t made yet, but the home builder is definitely ahead 🙂 As I said, I have now ordered the Nordic House catalog and will likely request a quote from the company soon 🙂
I appreciate the note about the trash bins 🙂
And we will definitely clarify the issue with the overhang 🙂 Thanks!
11ant15 Aug 2023 12:36
Paswina schrieb:

Hello 11ant! The race is not decided yet, but the builder is definitely ahead 🙂 As I said, I have now ordered the Nordic-Haus catalog and will probably request an offer from the company soon 🙂
I’ll keep your comment about the trash bins in mind 🙂
And we will definitely clarify the issue with the overhang 🙂 Thanks!

Legally, there is little to discuss, since I believe in building regulations across all countries the 11th centimeter beyond the building boundary typically triggers a setback requirement. I’m in favor of both the choices “wood construction” and “self-build house,” even if you were still converted to Stommel ;-)
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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Paswina
15 Aug 2023 12:39
11ant schrieb:

Legally, there is little to clarify here, as I believe in the building regulations of all countries even the slightest extra centimeter beyond the building boundary triggers the need to set back the structure. I also agree with the decisions "pro wood" and "pro prefab house," even if you were to convert to Stommel ;-)
If I remember correctly, the Stommel catalog offered very nice houses. But not within our budget 🙂