ᐅ Sewer pipe embedded in the wrong location within the foundation slab

Price Breakdown:

All prices are net:
1260 EUR Excavation of the building pit, 300 cubic meters (cbm)
150 EUR Connection to existing sewer system
225 EUR Trench excavation for pipes, 5 cubic meters (cbm)
120 EUR Pipe bedding with sand, 2 cubic meters (cbm)
600 EUR KG pipes DN100, 40 linear meters (lfm)
140 EUR KG bends DN100, 20 pieces
45 EUR KG branches DN100, 3 pieces
30 EUR Transitions, 2 pieces
1000 EUR Multi-utility connection, 1 piece
3040 EUR Backfilling with pre-screened/recycled material, 80 cubic meters (cbm)
800 EUR Installation of gravel/recycled material in the courtyard area, 20 cubic meters (cbm)
210 EUR Supply of geotextile, 60 square meters (sqm)
3500 EUR Site setup
750 EUR Temporary site power connection
4050 EUR Construction of foundations including excavation and formwork, 18 cubic meters (cbm)
1602 EUR Supply and installation of gravel filter, thickness = 15 centimeters (cm) (6 inches), 188.5 square meters (sqm)
192 EUR Foundation grounding conductor, 48 linear meters (lfm)
5895 EUR Reinforced concrete slab, thickness = 25 centimeters (cm) (10 inches), 168.45 square meters (sqm)
320 EUR PE plastic sheet under slab, 160 square meters (sqm)
1431 EUR Concrete leveling layer, thickness = 5 centimeters (cm) (2 inches), 168.45 square meters (sqm)
6900 EUR Supply and installation of reinforcing steel, 4.6 tons (to)

Plus VAT and some smaller items such as the L-shaped retaining wall, the total rounded fixed price was 42,000 EUR plus an additional 2,000 EUR for partial removal of about 250 cubic meters (cbm) of soil (arranged jointly with the neighbor) == 44,000 EUR

3,500 € for site setup? Impressive,... ours was 250 €

Hello,

thank you very much for your feedback.

tuxedo schrieb:

No, not the seller. I spoke with the master carpenter from the timber construction company, who is responsible for the technical management of the house building projects. I know him quite well by now. They also don’t have any outstanding invoices with the general contractor (GC). They were quite “perplexed” that the GC is now acting this way. So far, he was always willing to compromise.

Try to involve the master carpenter if he has better contact with the GC. Maybe together you can find a cost-effective solution for your trench.

tuxedo schrieb:

The timber construction company had nothing to do with that either. They only prepared the plans for the foundation slab and the piping, and we signed the contract for the foundation slab directly with the GC.

Are you sure the execution drawings were correct, or could the error have originated there? By the way, it has also happened to us that execution plans were not correctly interpreted. The customer affected now has a 3.00 m (10 ft) high wine cellar; which wasn’t exactly cheap for our GC, considering the total investment costs that came with the unwanted increase in cellar height.

tuxedo schrieb:

But the devil is often in the details…

Yes, that’s true.

Again – even if you have paid the GC a lot of money, I don’t see a reason why he should provide additional services; unless for reasons of goodwill. You are not getting an inferior service because of the change in execution. If he is really – as the master carpenter says – usually willing to accommodate his clients, there must be another reason for his behavior that you haven’t been made aware of yet. I can hardly imagine it’s just because of difficult soil conditions (which your GC accepted without comment), especially since he agreed to the fixed-price offer.

If I understand you correctly, it is primarily the total amount that makes you consider alternative solutions. Which I don’t quite understand, since the “disadvantages” of a sloped property must have been known to you; you surely understood that €5,000 or 10,000 would not cover it. So why do you write

tuxedo schrieb:

I could follow your argument about "using a sledgehammer to crack a nut" if this wasn’t about €44,000 for "a bit of earthworks plus a ‘simple’ foundation slab”. If this had been a €5,000 foundation project, then I wouldn’t fuss about €1,000.

when you know that amount was never even an option?

tuxedo schrieb:

Again: Even if opening and closing the foundation slab would actually cost €1,000: I don’t care about the amount. I just want to argue with the GC that he could come a bit toward me and “make amends” by digging the trench in front of the house for me, which would be much cheaper for him than me insisting on opening and closing the foundation slab (which I don’t want either).

Try to look at the situation from your GC’s perspective. He made a fixed-price offer and during the work realized that his profit shrank significantly due to additional effort, machine use, and labor hours. He still carried out the job at no extra cost to you. Then this error occurred (regardless of who caused it) in the execution of the drainage pipes, which – luckily – can be fixed with little effort. So he is not paying extra for that. Now you want – fully aware that this service will cost you a considerable amount of euros if contracted externally – your GC to bear these costs for a correctable “mistake” that does not reduce the overall promised service?

What would you do if you were this GC?

Regards, Bauexperte

Try to involve the carpenter if he has a better connection to the builder (BU). Maybe together you can find a more cost-effective solution for your trench.

That’s my current approach. At least the carpenter supports me and also finds the builder’s behavior quite strange.

Are you sure the execution plans were correct, or could the error possibly have originated there?

The plans are correct. I checked them twice. They were created by the housebuilding company. They also checked them immediately: everything was correct. The builder admitted the mistake himself… but he can’t explain how it happened.

Again – even if you have paid the builder a lot of money, I don’t see any reason why he should provide additional services unless it’s out of goodwill.

No, he does NOT have to provide additional services. Only if the matter is pursued to the end, I’m sure I could insist on opening the slab. That would be more expensive for the builder than digging a small trench. Admittedly, that would be more costly than the 50mm (2 inch) soil pipe. But with just a little goodwill, the trench would definitely be acceptable.

If he really—as the carpenter says—is otherwise willing to work with his customers, there must be another reason for his behavior, which you do not yet know.

Well, that’s the big question that neither I nor the carpenter have found an answer to.

I can’t imagine it’s just because of rocky ground (your builder accepted that without comment), especially since he agreed to a fixed price contract.

Well, first he made the fixed price offer, we accepted it, and after everything was done and he presented the invoice, he mentioned in passing that he probably didn’t make much profit because the large rocks in the ground unexpectedly increased his costs.
I see it this way: that’s his problem. My problem now is that I have 50 cubic meters (about 65 cubic yards) of soil sitting there, which will be expensive to get rid of because of the stones. But that’s my risk. Everyone has their own burden to bear.

If I understand you correctly, it’s primarily the total amount that makes you consider alternative measures. I don’t understand that, since you surely knew the drawbacks of a sloped lot; you must have known that it wouldn’t be done with just EUR 5,000 or 10,000. So why do you write… when you know that this amount was never realistic?

At first, I didn’t realize it would be this expensive. The housebuilder (and not only him, another one had similar estimates) assumed 3,000 to 5,000 EUR. Only when the first builders submitted their quotes did we learn that 3,000 to 5,000 EUR was not really feasible.
Initially, the lower price was based on the experts expecting that the soil removed from the back could be used to raise the front part, resulting in a level surface. It became apparent only after several months that this wasn’t that easy, until a realistic offer was finally made.

Try to look at the situation from your builder’s point of view. He gave a fixed price offer and during the work realized that his profit was significantly reduced due to extra machinery use and labor hours. Nevertheless, he carried out the work without additional costs to you. Then the error (regardless of who caused it) occurred during the installation of the wastewater pipes, which fortunately can be fixed with little effort. So he doesn’t pay extra here. Now you—fully aware that this service will cost you a fair amount, and if you outsourced it—expect your builder to cover these costs for a correctable “mistake” that does not reduce the overall service you were promised?

I’ve thought about this part many times. If the builder has possibly already made losses, that is and remains his risk. I cannot do anything about it. I was not the one who proposed the fixed price—that came unsolicited from him. At the time, I thought “Wow, great, he’s accommodating—my risk = zero.”

The error can only be “fixed” expensively (cutting a hole in the slab), but it can be circumvented cheaply (rerouting the 50mm (2 inch) soil pipe to another outlet). That should be distinguished. That’s why I suggested a middle ground: the trench for the water pipe, which is more expensive than the “workaround” but cheaper than the “fix.”

What I have learned so far: I could insist on actually fixing the error. Because if I plan a different flooring construction than before (just hypothetically), then the 50mm (2 inch) soil pipe solution won’t work anymore. The builder certainly knows this. So I don’t understand why he resists the compromise. But the question was not why the builder behaves this way, rather what the approximate cost of actually fixing the problem would be. I already have an estimate from a carpenter (who usually deals more with wood than foundations). I was just looking for a second estimate here to see if the first estimate was roughly correct. Basically, to show the builder that the trench would be significantly cheaper than actually fixing the problem (not the much cheaper “workaround” I aimed for via the plumber).

What would you do if you were this builder?

I would be straightforward with the customer and not stall or behave “strangely.” I made the mistake, so I have to take responsibility. And if the customer insists on the expensive solution and refuses the cheapest one, I would be glad to have a middle ground to offer. After all, I don’t want to alienate the customer and risk them damaging my business through negative word of mouth.

Based on the way you argue here, I can imagine what your builder might be thinking. Just spend the money on a lawyer and an expert, and then you’ll see what you get out of it!

You probably have two options: either accept the 50mm (2 inch) pipe or "force" the builder to properly modify your foundation. The builder might be willing to compromise, but I think you’ve already lost that chance?!

I believe your mistake is thinking you’re entitled to the cost difference between the 50mm (2 inch) pipe and breaking into the foundation. You are entitled to a temporary solution and possibly the planned one. I’m not a lawyer, but the most important thing is that the function is guaranteed!

Hello,

tuxedo schrieb:

No, he is not obliged to provide additional services.

The trench would be an additional service, and its costs would be borne exclusively by the contractor; there is no way around that.

tuxedo schrieb:

Only if you pursue it to the very end, then I am sure I could insist on opening the foundation slab. And that would be more expensive for the contractor than making the small trench. Admittedly, that would again be more expensive than the 50mm (2 inch) HT pipe.

If I were you, I wouldn’t be so sure about that, because the presiding judge—if it comes to court—will always weigh the proportionality of measures. The fact is that the error can be fixed with very little effort—and without any significant disadvantage for you; by comparison, opening the foundation slab would be disproportionate, especially since it is uncertain whether that might cause further complications.

tuxedo schrieb:

But with just a little goodwill, the trench would definitely be justified.

That’s a different matter, but it cannot be enforced either. Despite full understanding of your current frustration, with your entrenched view, in my opinion, you will not promote any conflict resolution.

Best regards, Bauexperte