ᐅ How complex are heat pumps in everyday use?

pagoni2020 schrieb:

A system that not every heating engineer can handle, or that I as a layperson would have to become a professional for, cannot be mine;

Sorry, but what you’re saying is way too black and white.
Just because you don’t drive your car according to the manufacturer’s instructions doesn’t mean you don’t drive it at all.

Please don’t be discouraged by those who try to squeeze 5% savings out of their heat pump.
If you’re not interested in that, it’s okay—and still a thousand times better for the environment than heating with fossil fuels!

Here is what I understand now: A heat pump is user-friendly for non-experts, and you can trust that it will be installed and set up in a way that allows for efficient heating.

My concern was not about optimization but whether good efficiency can be realistically achieved in practice. That seems to be the case. Other threads had made me doubt this, so I wanted to start a discussion that provides people with confidence in their decision. I do not have a heat pump for heating myself, so I couldn’t contribute much based on personal experience.

pagoni2020 schrieb:

The question remains whether and how practical this type of heating system is for someone who simply wants to be comfortably warm.

I’m supposed to contradict the heating technician on several points and demand a different installation than he recommends... ufff...
The technician doesn’t want to lay the pipes too close, orders a pump that’s too large, wants a buffer tank etc... I’ve read about all these possible mistakes here and as a layperson, I’m supposed to tell him that it’s all nonsense. 😱

I’m not interested in the purpose of a heating curve, temperature difference or any of the other thousand technical details of this heating system; I just want warmth or coolness that feels comfortable to me.

Dear @pagoni2020, it seems like all your preconceived notions have landed and stuck right away 😉 Just a few comments:

A heat pump does nothing more than gas, district heating, or any other system also does: it generates warm water that is circulated through underfloor heating. There is absolutely no difference in the “heating experience.” However, if you generally do not like underfloor heating (and I believe I remember that’s the case for you), that’s a different matter—but it has nothing to do with the heat pump itself.

You don’t need to argue with your heating technician, nor are you responsible for their further training. You just need to choose the right one! But this is true for other trades as well. It’s correct, though, that the heating industry still has room for improvement in heat pump experience. Again: that’s not the fault of the heat pump, but rather mistakes made by lazy technicians.

Heating curve, temperature differential and other technical geek stuff don’t have to concern you: you push a button and it gets warm. And with a heat pump, in summer it can optionally even provide cooling! And further thinking ahead, it can even run largely self-sufficiently with electricity from rooftop solar.

hampshire schrieb:

Here is what I understand now: A heat pump is user-friendly, and you can generally rely on it being installed and set up so that you can heat efficiently.
My concern was not about optimization but whether it is realistic to achieve good efficiency in practice. That seems to be the case. Other threads made me doubt this, so I wanted to start a discussion that gives people confidence in their decisions. I don’t have a heat pump for heating myself, so I couldn’t contribute much from personal experience.

Cases where things go badly wrong, or where enthusiasts get obsessed down to the fourth decimal place, are disproportionately represented online. Naturally, much less is written about the other 295,000 installations that run smoothly. To be accurate, I should point out that (at least my) statements apply to new builds with underfloor heating or panel radiators. Older buildings, possibly with traditional radiators, are certainly more complex.

hampshire schrieb:

I now understand the following: A heat pump is user-friendly, and you can rely on it being installed and set up in a way that allows for efficient heating.

Yep – a personal example from my own house right now. The external wall insulation is still missing, so the heating doesn’t quite match the house yet. Installed a 5kW Jeisha unit, no energy recovery ventilation, everything on the heating manifold is fully open to ensure a good flow volume through the pipes (currently averaging 900 liters per minute). The heating curve is roughly adjusted. Temperature spread is 4 degrees Celsius (7°F).

At an outside temperature of 2-3 degrees Celsius (36-37°F), the supply temperature is still at 29 degrees Celsius (84°F) – indoor temperature is nicely warm at just under 22 degrees Celsius (72°F). With the current temperatures during the day, the system uses about 6 kWh and 2-3 kWh at night, totaling approximately 250 kWh per month including hot water for 120 square meters (1290 square feet). At current electricity costs of 25 cents per kWh, that’s about 63 euros. For a 1960s building without external insulation yet, that’s a very good performance. And this is without any fine-tuning – just turn on the heating and let it run.

Of course, next year after adding external wall insulation, I expect completely different values and will adjust the heating as originally planned. But this example shows that you can simply connect a heat pump and let it work efficiently without hassle.

My tenant upstairs, who still has to heat with oil this winter, will have about three times the heating costs. Just for comparison.

Hangman schrieb:

Dear @pagoni2020, it seems like all the stereotypes have landed and stuck with you right away 😉 Just a few comments:

I actually read it here, and repeatedly, from various users, so I’m not sure if these are truly prejudices I have stuck with me. Regardless, I have since made a decision that fits us, especially since we didn’t want underfloor heating anyway.

Hangman schrieb:

You shouldn’t argue with your heating engineer, nor are you responsible for their further training. You just need to choose the right one!

Yes, exactly that point. However, since I’m building with a so-called main contractor (general contractor) and the quality of work so far has been rather basic, I’m still glad about my decision. The heating engineer is good in terms of meeting deadlines, but when it comes to thorough information, there’s silence on inquiries, because they have to move on quickly.
Currently, I’m dealing with the installed controlled residential ventilation system; for example, I commissioned it myself after a prior phone call... just follow the menu and it works 🤨. Luckily, I can read a lot about it from Zehnder, or I call their factory directly.
Since I’m here in the stubborn East, feeling like I’m among about 80% vaccine skeptics, I miss a craftsman who masters their product and willingly explains it to me; I’m always open to that. I usually decide based more on the person than just technical details or numerical values, which hasn’t gone so well for me on this build so far.
So... choosing the general contractor was mostly a flop, and this has affected the trades across the board and still does.

Hangman schrieb:

Again, no fault of the heat pump, but a fault of lazy heating engineers.

I fully agree, but this is the kind of personnel that ends up at my door or, more often, I only get them on the phone. In short, back in my former home region, I would have known some very reliable tradespeople and would have followed their advice.
I don't question the technical quality of the heat pump, but I do question the apparently widespread, rather mediocre workmanship and the limited knowledge about how to operate it.
I do understand what you want to tell me, and I certainly don’t belong to any opinion camp for or against it. I just made a different decision, and even if some concerns were unnecessary, they did exist for the reasons mentioned, so it turned out differently.

RotorMotor schrieb:

Sorry, but what you write is way too black and white.

I never had a heat pump; I’m just repeating what has been repeatedly said here and how I feel about it. Why do you see it as black-and-white? The endless heat pump discussions can be read here, yet I have made my own decision without being influenced by them. I do not condemn any technology, whether heat pump, gas, or pellets... I believe everything has its place. People may accuse me of many things, black and white is rarely one of them, since I could live happily with any type of heating as long as it works. I think you misunderstood something...

RotorMotor schrieb:

Please don’t be discouraged by some people trying to squeeze 5% savings from their heat pump.

That was not my concern, nor was I discouraged—and do you think I base my decision solely on forum posts? If so, I would be living in a different house.
It is certainly not all without issues; you can also read about that repeatedly from users I wouldn’t call “nerds.” Every (heating) technology comes with its own problems or disadvantages—that’s pretty logical. One person likes this, another that... I don’t see it as black and white.