The discussions in the threads about heat pump consumption and supply temperature settings are full of technical terms, values, and configurations. It is sometimes mentioned that installers pay little attention to optimal adjustments, and that one should be more careful during the system design phase. From what I understand, incorrectly sized and/or poorly adjusted heat pumps lose their economic advantages. Therefore, I have three questions:
1. How much knowledge and skill does a homeowner actually need to acquire in order to achieve the cost-effectiveness they expect from their decision?
2. How likely is improper use by inexperienced users who simply want to have a comfortable temperature in their home?
3. What habits does a person need to give up when living for the first time in a house with a heat pump in order to achieve the expected cost-efficiency?
1. How much knowledge and skill does a homeowner actually need to acquire in order to achieve the cost-effectiveness they expect from their decision?
2. How likely is improper use by inexperienced users who simply want to have a comfortable temperature in their home?
3. What habits does a person need to give up when living for the first time in a house with a heat pump in order to achieve the expected cost-efficiency?
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Deliverer22 Nov 2021 14:51Mycraft schrieb:
Just yesterday, heat pumps were considered the ultimate climate destroyer, and now suddenly they're the climate savior.Really? I've never heard that before...Perfect example. You just have to present it correctly, and it works. But don’t get me wrong—heat pumps are a great technology. I completely agree with that.
And one thing upfront: the medium the heat pump uses—whether water, glycol, or air—does not change the way it works at all. It’s always the same principle. The system simply transfers heat from point A to point B, or from B to A, or in both directions.
Background
Sensationalist Reporting
Especially in summer, daily and business press often report sensationally and usually with little technical basis about air conditioning systems. This type of reporting damages the reputation of an entire industry that is vital for many areas of our daily lives, such as food refrigeration, hospital and laboratory climate control. The market for air conditioning in private and commercial buildings is also affected, although there are good reasons to use these systems. Here are two examples from the media:
And one thing upfront: the medium the heat pump uses—whether water, glycol, or air—does not change the way it works at all. It’s always the same principle. The system simply transfers heat from point A to point B, or from B to A, or in both directions.
Background
Sensationalist Reporting
Especially in summer, daily and business press often report sensationally and usually with little technical basis about air conditioning systems. This type of reporting damages the reputation of an entire industry that is vital for many areas of our daily lives, such as food refrigeration, hospital and laboratory climate control. The market for air conditioning in private and commercial buildings is also affected, although there are good reasons to use these systems. Here are two examples from the media:
- In September 2019, Süddeutsche Zeitung headlined: “Air Conditioners Are Climate Killers. Many cooling units contain fluorinated refrigerants harmful to the climate. They can leak into the atmosphere through cracks.”
- In July 2020, the German ZDF channel aired a segment called “Climate Killers: Air Conditioners” in their series “planet e.” The German Environment Agency was featured, where Dr. Daniel de Graaf stated: “On average, about 5% of the refrigerant in each split air conditioning system escapes annually—during charging, operation through leaks, maintenance, and disposal.”
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pagoni202022 Nov 2021 15:40The question remains whether and how practical this type of heating system is for someone who simply wants to have a comfortable warmth.
It is undisputed that this topic can be prone to many errors if you are not willing to engage with it.
It starts with the fact that some home builders simply encounter refusal or stubbornness from the tradesperson and have no choice but to follow their approach or risk the builder refusing to continue. Often, the heating installer comes from somewhere and then disappears again, as I recall from lengthy forum discussions.
So, I’m supposed to turn something off AFTER installation that I actually need but at the same time should not use..... for ME, that already starts to feel uncomfortable AND I’m expected to contradict the heating technician on multiple levels and demand an installation different from what they recommend.... ugh.....
The installer doesn’t want to lay the pipes too tightly, orders an oversized pump, insists on a buffer tank, and so on... I’ve read about numerous possible errors here, and as a layperson, I’m supposed to tell him that this is all nonsense. 😱
Even if not everyone might understand it, for me, it would be dreadful to have to think about all this, and therefore, this system would have been unsuitable for me. If I had had a “trusted heating installer” here, I would gladly have been convinced by them, but here it was more the rush-and-go type on site. I’m neither interested in the purpose of a heating curve nor a differential temperature or any of the other thousands of technical details of this heating system — I just want warmth, hot or cold, in a way that feels comfortable to me.
However, I understand that some people enjoy digging into these details, optimizing, and even outsmarting the installed system to their advantage — for me, that would be total stress. I’d rather go outside briefly and fetch a piece of wood for the fireplace (if it finally gets installed).
Long story short:
A system that not every heating installer can manage or where I as a layperson would have to become an expert is not the right one for me; this applies equally to other equipment as well. I like very good quality but just as much simple functionality, which I do not see at least with this technology when it comes to achieving the efficiency described in data sheets and that is indeed desirable. The mostly rather mediocre installation quality I have experienced is unacceptable to me.
It is undisputed that this topic can be prone to many errors if you are not willing to engage with it.
It starts with the fact that some home builders simply encounter refusal or stubbornness from the tradesperson and have no choice but to follow their approach or risk the builder refusing to continue. Often, the heating installer comes from somewhere and then disappears again, as I recall from lengthy forum discussions.
So, I’m supposed to turn something off AFTER installation that I actually need but at the same time should not use..... for ME, that already starts to feel uncomfortable AND I’m expected to contradict the heating technician on multiple levels and demand an installation different from what they recommend.... ugh.....
The installer doesn’t want to lay the pipes too tightly, orders an oversized pump, insists on a buffer tank, and so on... I’ve read about numerous possible errors here, and as a layperson, I’m supposed to tell him that this is all nonsense. 😱
Even if not everyone might understand it, for me, it would be dreadful to have to think about all this, and therefore, this system would have been unsuitable for me. If I had had a “trusted heating installer” here, I would gladly have been convinced by them, but here it was more the rush-and-go type on site. I’m neither interested in the purpose of a heating curve nor a differential temperature or any of the other thousands of technical details of this heating system — I just want warmth, hot or cold, in a way that feels comfortable to me.
However, I understand that some people enjoy digging into these details, optimizing, and even outsmarting the installed system to their advantage — for me, that would be total stress. I’d rather go outside briefly and fetch a piece of wood for the fireplace (if it finally gets installed).
Long story short:
A system that not every heating installer can manage or where I as a layperson would have to become an expert is not the right one for me; this applies equally to other equipment as well. I like very good quality but just as much simple functionality, which I do not see at least with this technology when it comes to achieving the efficiency described in data sheets and that is indeed desirable. The mostly rather mediocre installation quality I have experienced is unacceptable to me.
hampshire schrieb:
I specifically wrote it so that by "economical" I mean the system performs as the calculations promise. After all, these calculations are an important part of deciding on a heating system. It seems that poor settings cost efficiency and lifespan.
I find it interesting how closely the calculated consumption values correspond to the actual consumption values later on, without any additional adjustments. In my view, when it comes to the calculations done prior to building a house or applying for subsidies, the heat pump is by far the least critical component. Many other calculations have a much greater impact: U-values, thermal bridge allowances, frame percentages of windows, natural infiltration, heat recovery in ventilation, solar and internal heat gains, and so on. While these may look highly scientific and precise on paper, in practice they are quite variable. This means that if there are discrepancies between calculated and actual consumption values, in probably more than 90% of cases these differences are due to the quality of building components, construction shortcuts, poor underfloor heating design, user behavior, and of course optimistic assumptions in the initial calculation (since it is common to aim for the best possible values to secure the subsidy level). All of this is independent of the heating type (heat pump or gas) or the level of optimization.
Put differently: a well and professionally planned and executed house will be heated economically with a heat pump set to standard settings.
Otherwise, a heat pump is completely unproblematic: we took possession of our house exactly one year ago tomorrow. The introduction to the heat pump took ten minutes (“Please only adjust the room target temperature until you feel comfortable. Otherwise, do not touch anything”), and during the first few weeks, the heating technician came twice on overcast days with a thermal camera to check floor temperatures and the manifold, adjusting flow if needed. Aside from that, absolutely NOTHING was done or “optimized.” Why would it be? This year we expect about 11,000 kWh heating and hot water demand, for which we will need 2,000–2,200 kWh electricity... what else is there to optimize?
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Benutzer20022 Nov 2021 15:50pagoni2020 schrieb:
So, I’m supposed to turn something off AFTER installation that I actually need but shouldn’t use... That already gives me a headache, AND I’m expected to argue with the heating engineer on several levels and demand an installation different from what he recommends... ufff...
The heating engineer doesn’t want to lay the pipes too tightly, orders a pump that’s too large, wants a buffer tank, etc... I’ve read about all these possible errors here, and as a layperson, I’m supposed to tell him all of that is nonsense. 😱 For beginners: You get an S-Class, and after optimization, it becomes a Rolls Royce. The better is always the enemy of the good. So, €600 heating costs per year or €580 after "optimization."
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