ᐅ Floor Plan for a Multi-Generational Home Conversion of an Old Barn
Created on: 9 Feb 2021 21:56
D
derclaus
Hello dear forum members,
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
I have been quietly following the discussions for some time now and am curious to share the first drafts of our house construction project—to see what feedback I get. I can hardly imagine that anyone outside of this project can really understand it, but I will do my best to make the introduction as clear and informative as possible.
Background:
About two years ago, my family (wife, three children aged 7, 5, and 3), my sister-in-law, and my parents-in-law moved to an estate near Oldenburg. The estate measures about 3.5 hectares (including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture for my sister-in-law’s horses). Over the past few years, we have been almost daily occupied with restoring the estate and maintaining the surrounding land and large areas.
Current Status GROUND FLOOR
Together with a friend (a carpenter and exhibition builder), I started planning the conversion of the barn belonging to the estate to create an apartment for my family. However, most of the work comes from me; my friend only gave me some initial support and is not further involved in the project. The usable footprint is predetermined because part of the barn must remain storage space for equipment, etc. We have already made several drafts, and I would like to share what I consider the best ones here. Overall, we are quite satisfied with the ground floor approach, but the lighting situation is particularly challenging since windows can only be placed on one side—as only the south side of the barn can be converted. The plan is to include a living-dining-kitchen area with a fireplace, staircase, utility room, master bedroom with walk-in closet, and a full bathroom preferably with a bathtub.
An important note: two pillars (30x30cm (12x12 inches)) run from the floor all the way to the roof. These cannot be altered for structural reasons and also affect the layout of the upper floor, including room arrangements and staircase positioning. We have fixed the south side width at 14–15 meters (46–49 feet), with a maximum of 16 meters (52 feet) possible, but no more.
Current Status UPPER FLOOR
So far, I have only worked roughly on this level since I am still not satisfied with the ground floor layout. I have attached a rough draft for the three children’s rooms and the bathroom.
It is important to note: at this level, there are additional supports branching off from the mentioned pillars, running diagonally from the floor to the ceiling toward the north, which cannot be removed either. In my opinion, these should be incorporated into the walls. A door could be installed at the outer edge of such a wall. But we have not reached that point yet...
Information about the FLOOR PLAN PLANNING:
As far as I can judge, not all details (such as floor area ratio, gross floor area ratio, etc.) are relevant for this existing building construction. I will provide these as far as possible and will do my best to answer questions from the community.
From my side GENERAL COMMENTS:
I welcome any and all constructive feedback and will not be disappointed if it challenges my views on how everything should look. At this stage, any aspect or wall can still be changed. I’m looking forward to it.
==========================================================
Development Plan / Restrictions
Size of the property: 3.5 hectares (8.6 acres, including 2 hectares (5 acres) of pasture)
Slope: none
Number of floors: 2
Roof type: gable roof with 50-degree pitch, barn approx. 12 meters (39 feet) high
Style: estate style
Orientation: conversion on the south side
Maximum height / limits: unknown
Other requirements: According to the building authority, the drafts can be realized without problems.
Client Requirements
Style, roof type, building type: single-family home on an estate (conversion of existing building)
Floors: ground floor + upper floor (2 full floors) + option to convert the attic
Number of people, ages: 5 people: 46, 37, 7, 5, 3
Space requirements ground floor, upper floor: 200 square meters (2150 square feet) +
Office usage, home office?: office currently not planned, if possible with a single workspace
Guests per year: 10
Open or closed architecture: open, but living & dining area should not be too open
Conservative or modern construction: rather modern
Open kitchen, kitchen island: open kitchen, kitchen island
Number of dining seats: at least 6
Fireplace: yes, in the living-dining room, preferably on an exterior wall
Music / stereo wall: no
Balcony, roof terrace: no, only a terrace facing the garden—preferably with a terrace door
Garage, carport: no, parking spaces available
Vegetable garden, greenhouse: no
Preferred heating technology: connected to the main house’s heating, so not relevant
House design
Designer: own design
What do you particularly like? Why?:
- We really like the ground floor with its large south-facing windows; it’s necessary to bring light into the barn’s interior and the far corners of the living room
- The access to the parents’ area is not directly from the hallway. Even though it costs space, I like it this way.
What do you dislike? Why?:
- I am very undecided about how to fit a bathroom on the ground floor.
- The big question is whether the living room should extend to the rear wall. I think there's still light there, but I don’t quite know how to best use the space. Or should a staircase be placed behind it?
- The access to the living room is unclear to me. On one hand, we prefer it to be closed off; on the other, keeping the option to open it up sounds interesting—possibly with a sliding door.
- We like seeing the staircase from the entrance (rather than hiding it in a dark corner).
If you had to give up on some details or features,
-Could you give up on: bathtub in the bathroom next to the parents’ bedroom; a shower is sufficient
-Cannot give up: office (could also be located in the attic; currently, there are alternatives in the main house)
==========================================================
ESTATE – the photo shows the barn, overall dimensions 30 meters (98 feet) long, 20 meters (66 feet) wide – so only the southwest side can be converted.
PRELIMINARY DESIGNS – OPEN CONCEPT Drafts 21A + 21B
Is the main entrance door also going on the south side? Are you going to replace the concrete slab?
We considered this necessary, for example. The existing slab was resting directly on the marsh soil, with no protection against groundwater and no reinforcement. Also, part of the building used to be an old stable, so the slab needed to be redone anyway. I’m asking because this might affect the floor level, depending on how much excavation can be done. The structural engineer and architect set a maximum depth for us. For us, with the original height also about 2.3 meters (7 feet 7 inches), it’s really tight (but with underfloor heating), but it just works with the front door 😉
I wouldn’t worry too much about the budget at first. We are working with a much smaller budget but, as I said, we only renovated the upper floor and the roof is in good condition. So far, there haven’t been any nasty surprises. But I’m not an expert, and just the roof alone will surely cost a lot of timber.
To give feedback on the floor plan, a few questions: What will be placed in the rooms without windows? How will these be ventilated? I’m thinking particularly about the washing machine, dryer, drying laundry, etc., all of which produce moisture. Will there be a children’s bathroom on the upper floor, or will the three children share your bathroom?
Do you really have no possibility to use the gable side or the south-facing side?
By the way, who said the entire roof needs to be replaced? Has a building surveyor, architect, or structural engineer been involved? We developed a rough plan for our renovation with the structural engineer and now only call in when necessary. For example, our mason wanted to do the interior insulation with normal aerated concrete and an air gap. That wouldn’t have been ideal. Maybe it would have worked, but we could have soon had moisture damage. Our architect put a stop to that. As non-professionals, but with good support from family members who are skilled tradespeople, we’re glad to have the opinions of the architect and structural engineer. I like to cross-check their opinions with the practical experience of the craftsmen involved. If there are disagreements about the execution, you can work them out. Ultimately, the decision has to be made by us.
We considered this necessary, for example. The existing slab was resting directly on the marsh soil, with no protection against groundwater and no reinforcement. Also, part of the building used to be an old stable, so the slab needed to be redone anyway. I’m asking because this might affect the floor level, depending on how much excavation can be done. The structural engineer and architect set a maximum depth for us. For us, with the original height also about 2.3 meters (7 feet 7 inches), it’s really tight (but with underfloor heating), but it just works with the front door 😉
I wouldn’t worry too much about the budget at first. We are working with a much smaller budget but, as I said, we only renovated the upper floor and the roof is in good condition. So far, there haven’t been any nasty surprises. But I’m not an expert, and just the roof alone will surely cost a lot of timber.
To give feedback on the floor plan, a few questions: What will be placed in the rooms without windows? How will these be ventilated? I’m thinking particularly about the washing machine, dryer, drying laundry, etc., all of which produce moisture. Will there be a children’s bathroom on the upper floor, or will the three children share your bathroom?
Do you really have no possibility to use the gable side or the south-facing side?
By the way, who said the entire roof needs to be replaced? Has a building surveyor, architect, or structural engineer been involved? We developed a rough plan for our renovation with the structural engineer and now only call in when necessary. For example, our mason wanted to do the interior insulation with normal aerated concrete and an air gap. That wouldn’t have been ideal. Maybe it would have worked, but we could have soon had moisture damage. Our architect put a stop to that. As non-professionals, but with good support from family members who are skilled tradespeople, we’re glad to have the opinions of the architect and structural engineer. I like to cross-check their opinions with the practical experience of the craftsmen involved. If there are disagreements about the execution, you can work them out. Ultimately, the decision has to be made by us.
11ant schrieb:
Shouldn't the eaves be considered here to estimate the knee wall height? I was more concerned about the outside view.
icandoit schrieb:
I was more referring to the outside view.So, the roof overhang?https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
11ant schrieb:
So, around the eaves?That means the bottom edge of the gutter. It's probably less than 2 m (6 ft 6 in) from the planned finished floor level. Remove the old floor and you can immediately gain about 20 cm (8 inches).
Understood. 2m (6 ft 7 in) from the finished floor level. That might be really tight. It needs to be clarified whether it actually has this height.
Regarding the avatar: this open gate is the short west side and is intended to be used as a window & preserved in its style (with the brickwork). On the south side, we no longer see this brickwork, etc. Otherwise, it really doesn’t fit with the height.
Regarding the avatar: this open gate is the short west side and is intended to be used as a window & preserved in its style (with the brickwork). On the south side, we no longer see this brickwork, etc. Otherwise, it really doesn’t fit with the height.
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