ᐅ Subsequent structural engineering changes / additional costs
Created on: 8 Nov 2019 21:02
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Citrus91
Hello,
we have signed a consumer construction contract with a house building company. The contract includes a clause stating that additional costs may arise due to ordered measures related to the building permit / planning permission or the structural engineering calculations.
We replaced the wooden staircase of the standard house model we selected with a concrete staircase. The seller initially offered this change for an additional price of about 200€ (approximately $220) and it was included in the contract before signing. After the contract was signed, the structural engineer completed the calculations, and the building application and permit were approved, the house builder now wants to charge extra for additional work due to the structural requirements. The ceiling between the ground floor and first floor is supposed to be changed from 18cm (7 inches) to 22cm (9 inches) because of the staircase. This change is quoted to cost around 1000€ (about $1100). That is five times the original 200€. Is something like this legally justified? Where is the limit in such cases?
Thank you for your answers.
we have signed a consumer construction contract with a house building company. The contract includes a clause stating that additional costs may arise due to ordered measures related to the building permit / planning permission or the structural engineering calculations.
We replaced the wooden staircase of the standard house model we selected with a concrete staircase. The seller initially offered this change for an additional price of about 200€ (approximately $220) and it was included in the contract before signing. After the contract was signed, the structural engineer completed the calculations, and the building application and permit were approved, the house builder now wants to charge extra for additional work due to the structural requirements. The ceiling between the ground floor and first floor is supposed to be changed from 18cm (7 inches) to 22cm (9 inches) because of the staircase. This change is quoted to cost around 1000€ (about $1100). That is five times the original 200€. Is something like this legally justified? Where is the limit in such cases?
Thank you for your answers.
The invoice is likely less for the structural engineer alone and more for the additional costs caused by the execution calculated by them.
However, you only know this once the calculations are completed. Doing iterations here could cost the engineer about a day each time. So you want a precise quote for the stair costs, and the engineer charges a fee of around 1,000 euros only for you to then say, "No, the extra cost for the staircase is too high." Who will cover the multiple structural calculations for each of your requests to make them perfectly accurate? What would be a fair, cost-effective approach for you?
If 1,000 euros is too much, simply opt for the standard staircase. It’s that simple!
And if you get upset over such an additional cost, better buy an existing house—that will save you from needing blood pressure pills...
However, you only know this once the calculations are completed. Doing iterations here could cost the engineer about a day each time. So you want a precise quote for the stair costs, and the engineer charges a fee of around 1,000 euros only for you to then say, "No, the extra cost for the staircase is too high." Who will cover the multiple structural calculations for each of your requests to make them perfectly accurate? What would be a fair, cost-effective approach for you?
If 1,000 euros is too much, simply opt for the standard staircase. It’s that simple!
And if you get upset over such an additional cost, better buy an existing house—that will save you from needing blood pressure pills...
Scout schrieb:
The invoice is probably less for the structural engineer personally and more for the additional costs caused by the execution he calculated.
But you only know that once the calculations are finished. Doing iterations here might cost the structural engineer a day each time. So you only want a precise estimate of how much the staircase will cost exactly, and the structural engineer calculates a fee of around 1,000 Euro just for you to then say: "No, the extra cost for the staircase is too high." Who pays for multiple structural engineering calculations every time you ask, just to get an exact quote? What would be a fair, cost-effective approach for you?
If 1,000 Euro is too much, just go with the standard staircase. It’s that simple!
And if you get upset over such an extra cost, better buy an existing house—that will save you the blood pressure medication... Yes, exactly, it’s not the “structural engineer fees” but the additional costs resulting from the structural requirements.
What we would have expected from a company that probably plans and builds more than 50 houses a year??? A structural engineer with experience examines the house, which he has probably calculated 10 times, and knows exactly what is feasible and what isn’t anymore.
We would have expected a very clear statement: if you want a concrete staircase, expect changes in the structural design with additional costs of 1,000 to 1,500 Euro just for the structural modifications. If you want to raise the knee wall (which is actually our second topic), you need a ring beam on the gable, which leads to structural changes costing 4,000 to 6,000 Euro. That’s it. That’s how I would have preferred it. Not “yes, we will take care of the structural engineering later, but please sign here at the bottom right.”
Anyway. Back to my question. There must be an upper limit, right? Or do they really have free rein there now?
Citrus91 schrieb:
There must be an upper limit to this, or do they now have free rein?Exactly. What don’t you understand about your own sentence: "The contract includes the clause that additional work may be required due to mandated measures related to the building permit or during the structural calculations."
The additional work is not limited in total, correct? And by definition, there can be no binding statements about this in advance.
As already mentioned, if it’s too expensive for you, then just keep the staircase standard. And look forward to your build instead; there are worse things!
Citrus91 schrieb:
We replaced the wooden staircase from the standard model house we selected with a concrete staircase. The seller offered us this change back then for an additional cost of about €200, and it was included in the contract before signing. After the contract was signed, once the structural engineer calculated the loads, and the building application and permit were approved, the homebuilder now wants to charge extra due to structural reasons. The ceiling thickness between the ground floor and first floor is supposed to increase from 18cm to 22cm (7 inches to 8.7 inches) because of the staircase. This would cost around €1000. So that’s five times the original €200. Is this legitimate? Or where is the limit? Good morning!
Whether this amount of naivety is still justified, only the gods know. Two green bills are obviously just the change fee, twelve green bills for a custom staircase including the 4cm (1.6 inches) thicker ceiling is a price one should thank for rather than complain about. Where do you live? – with that attitude I’ll tell you straight away: don’t even think about requesting a dark gray sectional garage door, or large-format tiles laid in a random pattern.
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HilfeHilfe9 Nov 2019 06:48Citrus91 schrieb:
Yes, that’s correct – it’s not the "structural engineer’s fees" but the additional costs due to structural engineering.
What we would have expected from a company that plans and builds 50+ houses per year? A structural engineer with experience reviews the house, which they’ve probably calculated 10 times, and knows exactly what is feasible and what might no longer be possible.
We would have expected a clear statement: If you want a concrete staircase, expect changes in the structural design with additional costs of €1000...1500 (approx. $1100...1650) purely for structural modifications. If you want to raise the knee wall (which is our second topic), you need a ring beam at the gable, which costs €4000...6000 (approx. $4400...6600) in structural changes. That’s it. That’s how I would have wanted it. And not “yes, because of the structural engineering we’ll deal with it later, but please sign here at the bottom right.”
Anyway. Back to my question. There must be an upper limit, or do they have free rein now? I think you shouldn’t have started building. You signed a contract without a limit and now you are complaining. No, there is no limit. That’s called freedom of contract.
The structural engineering, and especially any necessary changes resulting from the homeowner’s requests, cannot be precisely determined at the time the quote is provided.
Moreover, the additional charge mentioned is quite reasonable. I hope the 1000€ (about 1100 USD) hasn’t already used up your contingency fund, as you will likely need significantly more for this.
Replacing wood with concrete has the "disadvantage" that the concrete staircase will require a covering. These costs will probably be on top of the current expenses once you get to the topic of tiles or floor finishes...
Moreover, the additional charge mentioned is quite reasonable. I hope the 1000€ (about 1100 USD) hasn’t already used up your contingency fund, as you will likely need significantly more for this.
Replacing wood with concrete has the "disadvantage" that the concrete staircase will require a covering. These costs will probably be on top of the current expenses once you get to the topic of tiles or floor finishes...
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