ᐅ Building with Concrete vs. the 2016 Energy Saving Regulations
Created on: 14 Mar 2017 10:42
A
alegend
Hello everyone!
My issue is basically in the topic title...
We are currently planning a house on a slope with our architect and just received the first draft yesterday, which we really liked.
We had previously discussed that we would like to build with concrete – he wasn’t opposed to it.
Yesterday, we came back to this topic and he mentioned that the energy saving regulations here will be problematic.
He said that Liapor (expanded clay) will not be sufficient at 50cm (20 inches) thickness. Alternatives mentioned were sandwich panels or reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation.
Regarding polystyrene on the outside, the thing is that we actually wanted exposed concrete both outside and inside.
I am now looking for input or suggestions on how this could be done within a financially reasonable framework. Any experience, etc. The costs for the whole thing should be comparable to a "normal" quality brick with necessary work like painting, etc.
So, no exorbitant costs just to have concrete... I think it’s clear what I mean.
Do you possibly have any ideas? Maybe also pictures of alternatives and in general m
My issue is basically in the topic title...
We are currently planning a house on a slope with our architect and just received the first draft yesterday, which we really liked.
We had previously discussed that we would like to build with concrete – he wasn’t opposed to it.
Yesterday, we came back to this topic and he mentioned that the energy saving regulations here will be problematic.
He said that Liapor (expanded clay) will not be sufficient at 50cm (20 inches) thickness. Alternatives mentioned were sandwich panels or reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation.
Regarding polystyrene on the outside, the thing is that we actually wanted exposed concrete both outside and inside.
I am now looking for input or suggestions on how this could be done within a financially reasonable framework. Any experience, etc. The costs for the whole thing should be comparable to a "normal" quality brick with necessary work like painting, etc.
So, no exorbitant costs just to have concrete... I think it’s clear what I mean.
Do you possibly have any ideas? Maybe also pictures of alternatives and in general m
alegend schrieb:
This concrete look – I still don’t understand how that is supposed to be achieved with Liapor SL blocks? You’d still have to plaster anyway, right? Or what am I missing? Because the block itself doesn’t really give me a concrete appearance.Exactly, you are misunderstanding (or rather, you understand correctly but are mixing two different things as one). I was talking about two alternatives. The Liapor SL (specifically the SL with classic joints, not the SL plan) would allow for exposed masonry, which would have to be intentionally planned that way, requiring a lot of attention to detail, especially with this building material. The surface would then be a masonry wall, and in texture, in my opinion, close to pumice.
You prefer a cast concrete look. We already clarified that by "concrete," you don’t mean the classic concrete with a uniformly slightly acidic gray surface, showing the pattern of formwork boards. Your "concrete" is a lightweight concrete with a speckled coloration leaning toward "terrazzo."
A very similar look can be achieved as a plaster layer. That’s why I suggested
a) either using a completely different building material (such as aerated concrete, which can meet KfW55 standards even with a more conventional wall thickness) and having the plaster on both sides imitate the desired surface appearance, or
b) as a variation of this, building the load-bearing wall shell with aerated concrete or similar, applying plaster on the inside for the finish, and using lightweight concrete as a cladding on the outside.
With both options, you’d get an adequate appearance without the downside of massive concrete walls, which, in my opinion, require a nearly excessive thickness—something that, as discussed, gives the house the impression of a ballistic fortress, like a castle wall matching a presidential limousine.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
alegend schrieb:
Hmm... Are we misunderstanding each other? Why do I not want a concrete look?Actually, I do want it, just not the form with the board-marked texture I first associated with it. Then I searched online and found images with a terrazzo-like surface.
alegend schrieb:
On page 1 with the two examples... Neither of them looks like terrazzo, right? The first one is liapor but from close up it also looks like regular concrete to me.Correct, that wasn’t so clear to me in the pictures. The “dense texture” version you probably have in mind, I found for example in Liapor News 2/2012, pages 10 to 13 (residential house Haigerloch / Werner family). An alternative with a slightly rougher surface, but overall a better thickness / thermal transmittance ratio, would be for example in Liapor News 1/2007, also pages 10 to 13, “Living X house concept as a basis.”
This variant as well (smooth and consistently colored throughout) can be simulated with plaster/render if, like me, you want to avoid increased wall thickness.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Ok, to clear up any confusion:
My architect said that building with LIapor (lightweight concrete with expanded clay aggregates) using 50cm (20 inches) thick walls will not comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance.
An option could be reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation—but that would mean losing the concrete facade on the outside, which we don’t want.
The images shown on page 2 (more information about image 1 can be found by searching "HAUS T KPT Architekten," and image 2 is from BR Traumhäuser) represent examples of the desired aesthetic for us!
The question now is how to achieve this look.
This is the current status; we haven’t progressed further yet. For the next meeting, I want to have some options or solutions prepared myself so that I can discuss them reasonably with the architect and potentially have him assess feasibility and costs based on these proposals. I don’t want everything handed to me on a silver platter by the architect only for things to repeatedly not fit our needs. That said, I do have to say our architect treats us as the decision-makers and not like many others who mainly want to realize their own vision (we have already changed architects once…). Therefore, the priority is to SAVE TIME—we are somewhat in a hurry!
Regarding the building itself, it is a cubic structure on a slope with a double garage. The building basically has a ground floor/basement level and an upper floor, so two stories in total. The ground floor/basement is partly underground on the slope, with the rest being usable living space. The total area including corridors is currently about 175m² (approximately 1,883 sq ft) of living space. The parts that are embedded in the slope consist of only three rooms.
My architect said that building with LIapor (lightweight concrete with expanded clay aggregates) using 50cm (20 inches) thick walls will not comply with the Energy Saving Ordinance.
An option could be reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation—but that would mean losing the concrete facade on the outside, which we don’t want.
The images shown on page 2 (more information about image 1 can be found by searching "HAUS T KPT Architekten," and image 2 is from BR Traumhäuser) represent examples of the desired aesthetic for us!
The question now is how to achieve this look.
This is the current status; we haven’t progressed further yet. For the next meeting, I want to have some options or solutions prepared myself so that I can discuss them reasonably with the architect and potentially have him assess feasibility and costs based on these proposals. I don’t want everything handed to me on a silver platter by the architect only for things to repeatedly not fit our needs. That said, I do have to say our architect treats us as the decision-makers and not like many others who mainly want to realize their own vision (we have already changed architects once…). Therefore, the priority is to SAVE TIME—we are somewhat in a hurry!
Regarding the building itself, it is a cubic structure on a slope with a double garage. The building basically has a ground floor/basement level and an upper floor, so two stories in total. The ground floor/basement is partly underground on the slope, with the rest being usable living space. The total area including corridors is currently about 175m² (approximately 1,883 sq ft) of living space. The parts that are embedded in the slope consist of only three rooms.
alegend schrieb:
Regarding the building, I can say it is a cubic structure built on a slope with a double garage – the building basically has a ground floor/basement and an upper floor, so two levels. The ground floor/basement is partly a basement embedded in the slope, with the rest usable. The total area including corridors is currently about 175m² (1,883 sq ft), which counts as living space. The parts embedded in the slope basically consist of just three rooms.If you already know it will be 175 sqm (1,883 sq ft) with three rooms inside the slope, that sounds like a fairly advanced sketch or even a preliminary design. Why not share it here? That way there’s something concrete to consider for the best approach.
alegend schrieb:
These represent examples of the desired appearance! How to achieve that is now the question.Exactly, that’s how I understood it: your main goal is a concrete-look house because you liked examples visually, but you aren’t fixed on concrete as the structural material itself. An architect pointed out that using 50 cm (20 inches) of Liapor blocks wouldn’t meet the 2016 energy-saving regulations. That seems plausible, as the examples dated from 2005 to 2012, so even before the 2014 energy regulations. It’s not the manufacturer’s fault, since they already have several mixes in their product range—if the desired properties can’t be achieved within 50 cm (20 inches) thickness, then it’s not possible with this material. That means either using this material but thicker; or using something else.
Therefore, my suggestion is either to completely separate structure and appearance; or to apply the desired exterior finish as a cladding layer while using another structural material behind it with an interior finish that imitates the look. This approach works quite well – the only giveaway would be that the surface feels less cold than real concrete.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
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