ᐅ Ytong energy savings regulation allows 25 cm wall thickness – who has experience with this?
Created on: 3 Nov 2018 20:38
H
Höhlenmensch
Yes, I have already searched and read everything, but I still have a question:
To what extent is the Energy Saving Ordinance mandatory?
I built my house myself 20 years ago using Ytong (ground floor with 25cm (10 inches) thick blocks and basement with 36cm (14 inches) thick blocks due to earth pressure).
Therefore, I know that working with 25cm (10 inches) blocks is easier, faster, cheaper, and simpler – and sufficient for the structural requirements!
Now I want to build a small home office extension and see the various discussions about thermal insulation in relation to the Energy Saving Ordinance.
The construction will be self-financed without any public funding. Can I use 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks?
I am not concerned about the energy savings – only whether this will be approved.
My question is not only based on the reasons mentioned above but also on the dimensions.
Due to the existing house and the construction stage, I have very little floor space left for the new build.
It may be difficult for some to understand, but if I use 36cm (14 inches) blocks instead of 25cm (10 inches), I lose 11cm (4 inches) on each side of the room, which is 22cm (9 inches) less interior space. Multiplied by the length, that adds up to several square meters, which explains the reason for my question given the limited available space.
So again... and thanks in advance:
Can I submit plans using 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks, and will this be approved?
Regards from someone who doesn’t want to draw plans twice for no reason. ;-)
To what extent is the Energy Saving Ordinance mandatory?
I built my house myself 20 years ago using Ytong (ground floor with 25cm (10 inches) thick blocks and basement with 36cm (14 inches) thick blocks due to earth pressure).
Therefore, I know that working with 25cm (10 inches) blocks is easier, faster, cheaper, and simpler – and sufficient for the structural requirements!
Now I want to build a small home office extension and see the various discussions about thermal insulation in relation to the Energy Saving Ordinance.
The construction will be self-financed without any public funding. Can I use 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks?
I am not concerned about the energy savings – only whether this will be approved.
My question is not only based on the reasons mentioned above but also on the dimensions.
Due to the existing house and the construction stage, I have very little floor space left for the new build.
It may be difficult for some to understand, but if I use 36cm (14 inches) blocks instead of 25cm (10 inches), I lose 11cm (4 inches) on each side of the room, which is 22cm (9 inches) less interior space. Multiplied by the length, that adds up to several square meters, which explains the reason for my question given the limited available space.
So again... and thanks in advance:
Can I submit plans using 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks, and will this be approved?
Regards from someone who doesn’t want to draw plans twice for no reason. ;-)
H
hemali20034 Nov 2018 01:37I can't tell you exactly. But our consumption is within a fairly normal range...
Why would you need more hot water?? Certainly, heating may use more to some extent, but hot water?
Why would you need more hot water?? Certainly, heating may use more to some extent, but hot water?
Höhlenmensch4 Nov 2018 13:53Thanks for the responses, but here you can see the problem:
The suppliers for Ytong prefer to sell the most expensive option!
“Nordlys” says they managed with 30cm (12 inches).
“Hemali” succeeded with 24cm (9.5 inches), so it must be possible—or was their house demolished and are they now homeless?
“Scout” -> No 25cm (10 inches) blocks (Thanks for the heating tip regarding the existing building).
It’s under 50m² (540 sq ft), hence the fight over every centimeter.
“Dertill” states precisely that 0.24 W/m²K must be strictly met, and therefore 24cm (9.5 inches) blocks are not possible.
— I will research the values of the blocks.
The costs mentioned by “Nutshell” are never truly comparable, as not only the number of occupants matters but also individual lifestyle habits. With my 25cm (10 inches) blocks (of course, normally plastered), I have been living comfortably for a long time and found no major differences in rough comparisons with other houses. I also wear a sweater in autumn and winter and turn down heating in less frequently used rooms. As a “hardcore Höhlenmensch,” I only shower once a day. (Yuck!) :-)
Of course, I have considered adding external insulation with polystyrene, but the researched costs—if not “sugar-coated”—led me to consider a heat pump instead (still considering, as it’s complicated: air/water/deep drilling/shallow drilling—I’ll see if there is info about this here in the forum).
Maybe I will add polystyrene to the planned new build later; it’s not very large, but because of building setback and coverage rules, I need to keep it small, as every square meter counts.
For this reason, I would prefer to use 25cm (10 inches) blocks.
But if it’s absolutely not allowed, I don’t want to invest time in drawings and calculations only to have to change everything later.
— Which authority actually enforces compliance, is it checked at all, and does this vary between (federal) states?
Sorry for the questions—20 years ago this was all simpler—Ytong said: use our 25cm (10 inches) blocks, submit, approved, built, done.
No wonder everything keeps getting more expensive!
So thanks for now, I’ll start researching the blocks.
There weren’t so many options back then either.
Was everything really better in the past? ;-)
The suppliers for Ytong prefer to sell the most expensive option!
“Nordlys” says they managed with 30cm (12 inches).
“Hemali” succeeded with 24cm (9.5 inches), so it must be possible—or was their house demolished and are they now homeless?
“Scout” -> No 25cm (10 inches) blocks (Thanks for the heating tip regarding the existing building).
It’s under 50m² (540 sq ft), hence the fight over every centimeter.
“Dertill” states precisely that 0.24 W/m²K must be strictly met, and therefore 24cm (9.5 inches) blocks are not possible.
— I will research the values of the blocks.
The costs mentioned by “Nutshell” are never truly comparable, as not only the number of occupants matters but also individual lifestyle habits. With my 25cm (10 inches) blocks (of course, normally plastered), I have been living comfortably for a long time and found no major differences in rough comparisons with other houses. I also wear a sweater in autumn and winter and turn down heating in less frequently used rooms. As a “hardcore Höhlenmensch,” I only shower once a day. (Yuck!) :-)
Of course, I have considered adding external insulation with polystyrene, but the researched costs—if not “sugar-coated”—led me to consider a heat pump instead (still considering, as it’s complicated: air/water/deep drilling/shallow drilling—I’ll see if there is info about this here in the forum).
Maybe I will add polystyrene to the planned new build later; it’s not very large, but because of building setback and coverage rules, I need to keep it small, as every square meter counts.
For this reason, I would prefer to use 25cm (10 inches) blocks.
But if it’s absolutely not allowed, I don’t want to invest time in drawings and calculations only to have to change everything later.
— Which authority actually enforces compliance, is it checked at all, and does this vary between (federal) states?
Sorry for the questions—20 years ago this was all simpler—Ytong said: use our 25cm (10 inches) blocks, submit, approved, built, done.
No wonder everything keeps getting more expensive!
So thanks for now, I’ll start researching the blocks.
There weren’t so many options back then either.
Was everything really better in the past? ;-)
H
hemali20034 Nov 2018 14:19We built according to the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance, which is standard practice for our very large, well-known general contractor. If that hadn’t been possible, it would have been noticed by now!
We had the plans reviewed by a building surveyor in advance and later specifically asked him if this could be problematic. His answer was very clear: "No, it's acceptable"!
We had the plans reviewed by a building surveyor in advance and later specifically asked him if this could be problematic. His answer was very clear: "No, it's acceptable"!
hemali2003 schrieb:
We built according to the 2016 Energy Saving Ordinance, and with our very large, well-known general contractor that is standard.24 cm (9.5 inches) aerated concrete with a thermal conductivity (lambda) of 0.09 W/mK results in a U-value of approximately 0.35 W/m²K.
If you meet the Energy Saving Ordinance requirements in new construction using better insulated components, congratulations. However, this is not possible for existing buildings, since Table 1 from Annex 3.7 of the 2014 Energy Saving Ordinance applies there. It requires exterior walls to have a U-value below 0.24 W/m²K, which corresponds to 36.5 cm (14.4 inches) thickness at lambda 0.09 when no additional layers (besides plaster) are added. I am not aware of any aerated concrete with better insulation properties.
Regarding inspections, to my knowledge, authorized building permit applicants are responsible for verifying compliance with the Energy Saving Ordinance during building permit processes. Whether this is mandatory and whether they must intervene, I do not know. This whole issue, especially for existing buildings (for example, who checks the thickness of insulation I applied myself on the facade), remains largely unregulated. However, as far as I know, it is different when submitting a building permit application. Please correct me if I am wrong!
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