ᐅ Building with Concrete vs. the 2016 Energy Saving Regulations
Created on: 14 Mar 2017 10:42
A
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Hello everyone!
My issue is basically in the topic title...
We are currently planning a house on a slope with our architect and just received the first draft yesterday, which we really liked.
We had previously discussed that we would like to build with concrete – he wasn’t opposed to it.
Yesterday, we came back to this topic and he mentioned that the energy saving regulations here will be problematic.
He said that Liapor (expanded clay) will not be sufficient at 50cm (20 inches) thickness. Alternatives mentioned were sandwich panels or reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation.
Regarding polystyrene on the outside, the thing is that we actually wanted exposed concrete both outside and inside.
I am now looking for input or suggestions on how this could be done within a financially reasonable framework. Any experience, etc. The costs for the whole thing should be comparable to a "normal" quality brick with necessary work like painting, etc.
So, no exorbitant costs just to have concrete... I think it’s clear what I mean.
Do you possibly have any ideas? Maybe also pictures of alternatives and in general m
My issue is basically in the topic title...
We are currently planning a house on a slope with our architect and just received the first draft yesterday, which we really liked.
We had previously discussed that we would like to build with concrete – he wasn’t opposed to it.
Yesterday, we came back to this topic and he mentioned that the energy saving regulations here will be problematic.
He said that Liapor (expanded clay) will not be sufficient at 50cm (20 inches) thickness. Alternatives mentioned were sandwich panels or reinforced concrete with external polystyrene insulation.
Regarding polystyrene on the outside, the thing is that we actually wanted exposed concrete both outside and inside.
I am now looking for input or suggestions on how this could be done within a financially reasonable framework. Any experience, etc. The costs for the whole thing should be comparable to a "normal" quality brick with necessary work like painting, etc.
So, no exorbitant costs just to have concrete... I think it’s clear what I mean.
Do you possibly have any ideas? Maybe also pictures of alternatives and in general m
The gentlemen mentioned were/are all representatives of clear architecture, each from different periods.
I will highlight just two, since the others would mainly reflect my personal architectural taste and were little to not at all active in the construction style you are interested in:
Frank Lloyd Wright (died 1959) is a classic, known for houses with very flat hipped roofs built almost like a trademark. What I wanted to show you from him I cannot find at the moment – they were houses with exposed masonry made of large-format stones; I cannot recall the exact material, but they had surfaces resembling volcanic rock.
Mario Botta (born 1943) often uses smaller-format concrete blocks (2 DF) for exposed masonry.
Similar results could be achieved with Liapor SL.
I do not have image rights for examples, and links are not allowed here according to the rules.
.
A sandwich-type construction, placing insulation between two panels (about the thickness of prefabricated garages, for example), is, in my opinion, not the ideal solution. I also don’t know any manufacturer willing to develop suitable production methods for that. Every door or window opening becomes a challenge requiring serious engineering effort.
The term “prefabricated components” is also somewhat misleading here, since these cannot be standard parts if the overall composition of the house is not to be very limited. Rather, these are “pre-made parts” with individual planning and corresponding manufacturing in very small quantities per identical part (almost a batch size of “1”).
What can be done with a higher degree of standardization can be seen at the house builder Dennert Massivhaus.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I will highlight just two, since the others would mainly reflect my personal architectural taste and were little to not at all active in the construction style you are interested in:
Frank Lloyd Wright (died 1959) is a classic, known for houses with very flat hipped roofs built almost like a trademark. What I wanted to show you from him I cannot find at the moment – they were houses with exposed masonry made of large-format stones; I cannot recall the exact material, but they had surfaces resembling volcanic rock.
Mario Botta (born 1943) often uses smaller-format concrete blocks (2 DF) for exposed masonry.
Similar results could be achieved with Liapor SL.
I do not have image rights for examples, and links are not allowed here according to the rules.
.
A sandwich-type construction, placing insulation between two panels (about the thickness of prefabricated garages, for example), is, in my opinion, not the ideal solution. I also don’t know any manufacturer willing to develop suitable production methods for that. Every door or window opening becomes a challenge requiring serious engineering effort.
The term “prefabricated components” is also somewhat misleading here, since these cannot be standard parts if the overall composition of the house is not to be very limited. Rather, these are “pre-made parts” with individual planning and corresponding manufacturing in very small quantities per identical part (almost a batch size of “1”).
What can be done with a higher degree of standardization can be seen at the house builder Dennert Massivhaus.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
Actually, your architect is there to come up with a solution for this. However, when it comes to concrete inside and outside, there is no alternative to a sandwich panel, except for 60cm (24 inches) ultra-lightweight concrete walls. The first option is significantly more expensive than a conventional house, and the second one is much more costly.
Lumpi_LE schrieb:
For both interior and exterior concrete, there is no alternative to sandwich panels, except for 60cm (24 inches) ultra-lightweight concrete walls.Sandwich panels are more suitable for multi-family housing construction. For a single unit, the costs for designing each individual panel with its built-in components and openings, as well as the setup costs for the formwork, become disproportionately high—both in absolute terms and relative to the material production costs.
Having to use monolithic ultra-thick walls simply takes up a lot of floor space for the walls. Apart from that, it also has visual consequences: with every window, you then face the dilemma of what to do with the thick reveal—either make the wall look visibly thick from the outside or create "window seats" on the inside (but do you want those in every room?).
That is why my alternative suggestion is to avoid “concrete on both sides” and instead go for one-sided or double-sided "concrete-look" finishes.
But so far, we are not discussing any specific volume; we only know the desired appearance from the surface.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
In addition to the challenge of meeting the energy saving regulations with a monolithic exterior wall and roof construction made of lightweight concrete, there is the specific requirement to find skilled structural carpenters experienced in formwork construction and the special concrete mix, as well as a reliable concrete supplier. Currently, a 60 cm (24 inch) exposed concrete wall can achieve a U-value of only 0.5 W/m²K. This is double the maximum U-value of 0.24 W/m²K required by the energy saving regulations.
Moreover, the structural engineer must have experience with the particular advantages and disadvantages of lightweight concrete. In Germany, this material may only be approved on a case-by-case basis following building authority inspections. In Austria and Switzerland, it has been in use for a longer period. The costs for the entire process—including fees for permits/planning permission, handling and formwork testing, etc.—are likely at least twice as high as those for a solid wall with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) and plaster, or a monolithic aerated concrete wall with plaster, starting at approximately €480 per square meter (converted from Swiss prices). This is a cost factor to be carefully considered and only manageable if the budget allows.
Moreover, the structural engineer must have experience with the particular advantages and disadvantages of lightweight concrete. In Germany, this material may only be approved on a case-by-case basis following building authority inspections. In Austria and Switzerland, it has been in use for a longer period. The costs for the entire process—including fees for permits/planning permission, handling and formwork testing, etc.—are likely at least twice as high as those for a solid wall with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS) and plaster, or a monolithic aerated concrete wall with plaster, starting at approximately €480 per square meter (converted from Swiss prices). This is a cost factor to be carefully considered and only manageable if the budget allows.
11ant schrieb:
That’s why my alternative suggestion was to switch from "concrete on both sides" to a single or double side "concrete look." I still don’t understand how that concrete look is supposed to be achieved with Liapor SL blocks? It would still have to be plastered, right? Or am I misunderstanding something, and the block itself doesn’t actually provide a concrete appearance? It’s quite frustrating that linking anything is not allowed here.
Lumpi_LE schrieb:
Actually, your architect is supposed to come up with a solution for this, Yes, that’s true — but why shouldn’t I inform myself as well and tell the architect that this or that is our goal? I want to educate myself about the available options and maybe find a solution myself.
wpic schrieb:
With a 60cm (24 inch) exposed concrete wall, currently only a U-value of 0.5 W/m²K is possible. That is twice the maximum value allowed by the energy saving regulations, which is 0.24 W/m²K. I just had a PDF from Liapor here, and with a certain mix, they achieved 0.34 W/m²K.
But I can see there are many drawbacks — so another solution is needed. Many exposed concrete elements inside, and outside?! I have no idea what options are available here — I have looked but if you don’t know exactly what to search for, it’s hard. The term Liapor SL or similar gives me hardly any useful results, and if so, it’s mostly Liapor blocks with a plastered facade, which is fairly standard .-(
You have to keep in mind that the design must be buildable and have the necessary experience behind it. The standard approach is to construct a reinforced concrete shell with exposed concrete on the outside, followed by insulation and ventilated steel concrete panels and wooden elements behind it.
Costs have already been mentioned. For a 160 m2 (1,722 sq ft) house, the walls alone will amount to approximately 100,000, if it’s worth it for you.
Costs have already been mentioned. For a 160 m2 (1,722 sq ft) house, the walls alone will amount to approximately 100,000, if it’s worth it for you.
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