ᐅ Ytong energy savings regulation allows 25 cm wall thickness – who has experience with this?
Created on: 3 Nov 2018 20:38
H
Höhlenmensch
Yes, I have already searched and read everything, but I still have a question:
To what extent is the Energy Saving Ordinance mandatory?
I built my house myself 20 years ago using Ytong (ground floor with 25cm (10 inches) thick blocks and basement with 36cm (14 inches) thick blocks due to earth pressure).
Therefore, I know that working with 25cm (10 inches) blocks is easier, faster, cheaper, and simpler – and sufficient for the structural requirements!
Now I want to build a small home office extension and see the various discussions about thermal insulation in relation to the Energy Saving Ordinance.
The construction will be self-financed without any public funding. Can I use 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks?
I am not concerned about the energy savings – only whether this will be approved.
My question is not only based on the reasons mentioned above but also on the dimensions.
Due to the existing house and the construction stage, I have very little floor space left for the new build.
It may be difficult for some to understand, but if I use 36cm (14 inches) blocks instead of 25cm (10 inches), I lose 11cm (4 inches) on each side of the room, which is 22cm (9 inches) less interior space. Multiplied by the length, that adds up to several square meters, which explains the reason for my question given the limited available space.
So again... and thanks in advance:
Can I submit plans using 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks, and will this be approved?
Regards from someone who doesn’t want to draw plans twice for no reason. ;-)
To what extent is the Energy Saving Ordinance mandatory?
I built my house myself 20 years ago using Ytong (ground floor with 25cm (10 inches) thick blocks and basement with 36cm (14 inches) thick blocks due to earth pressure).
Therefore, I know that working with 25cm (10 inches) blocks is easier, faster, cheaper, and simpler – and sufficient for the structural requirements!
Now I want to build a small home office extension and see the various discussions about thermal insulation in relation to the Energy Saving Ordinance.
The construction will be self-financed without any public funding. Can I use 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks?
I am not concerned about the energy savings – only whether this will be approved.
My question is not only based on the reasons mentioned above but also on the dimensions.
Due to the existing house and the construction stage, I have very little floor space left for the new build.
It may be difficult for some to understand, but if I use 36cm (14 inches) blocks instead of 25cm (10 inches), I lose 11cm (4 inches) on each side of the room, which is 22cm (9 inches) less interior space. Multiplied by the length, that adds up to several square meters, which explains the reason for my question given the limited available space.
So again... and thanks in advance:
Can I submit plans using 25cm (10 inches) thick Ytong blocks, and will this be approved?
Regards from someone who doesn’t want to draw plans twice for no reason. ;-)
ypg schrieb:
Energy Saving Ordinance, renovation of existing buildings, max 50 sqm (540 sq ft) without new heating system: based on existing construction.
You can google this:You could also google chemtrails and tin foil hats and find plenty of supposedly well-supported claims.
But if you simply look at the publicly available Energy Saving Ordinance 2014 (2016 only tightened the limit on primary energy demand in new buildings by 25% compared to 2014), you will find in §9 sentence (4):
When extending and upgrading a building with heated or cooled rooms for which no heating system is installed, the affected external components must be modified or constructed so that the thermal transmittance (U-values) of the affected surfaces do not exceed the maximum values specified for such external components in Annex 3. If the added contiguous usable floor area exceeds 50 square meters (540 sq ft), the requirements for summer heat protection according to Annex 1, item 3, or Annex 2, item 4, must also be met.
A cabin built around 1950 with a double brick wall without insulation obviously cannot be extended simply by “basing on the existing construction.”
Höhlenmensch6 Nov 2018 10:49I did some research:
The most common size for Ytong blocks is probably a length of 62.5 centimeters (25 inches) and a height of 25 centimeters (10 inches). However, there are many other sizes available:
• Ytong blocks come in lengths of 33.2 cm (13 inches), 39.9 cm (15.7 inches), 49.9 cm (19.6 inches), 59.9 cm (23.6 inches), and 64.4 cm (25.4 inches).
• Besides different lengths, there are also options for the height of the blocks. They are available in heights of 19.9 cm (7.8 inches) and 24.9 cm (9.8 inches) (20/25).
• For every construction project, Ytong blocks are offered in different thicknesses: 5 cm (2 inches), 7.5 cm (3 inches), 10 cm (4 inches), 12 cm (4.7 inches), 15 cm (6 inches), 20 cm (8 inches), 25 cm (10 inches), 30 cm (12 inches), and 36.5 cm (14.4 inches).
• If we use so-called thermal blocks (price?), we can skip additional insulation due to the good thermal insulation properties of these blocks. These thermal blocks are available in lengths of 50 cm (20 inches) and 62.5 cm (25 inches). The widths offered are 30 cm (12 inches), 40 cm (16 inches), and 50 cm (20 inches), with the height always being 20 cm (8 inches) for these blocks.
So, the recommended thermal blocks are not available in the 25 cm (10 inches) width I wanted.
The 25 cm (10 inches) block has a U-value (rendered) of 0.48 W/m²K.
This means it meets the requirements set by the energy-saving regulations.
When building without subsidies, it seems that inspections are not always strict, because the overall values (lambda) of the whole house also play a role.
That means windows and the type of heating system are included in the overall energy efficiency of the house.
As a result, some people have managed to get approval using 25 cm (10 inches) and 30 cm (12 inches) blocks, and if you live in the house yourself and are not renting it out, you don’t even need an energy certificate where this would be checked.
Apparently, this is somewhat unclear. Once I’ve worked through the details, I’ll post an update.
Since I have already started researching heating alternatives (heat pumps) because the oil price has really hit me hard this year, I realize I could almost get a new degree.
No more free time left!
Best regards to all fellow builders.
The most common size for Ytong blocks is probably a length of 62.5 centimeters (25 inches) and a height of 25 centimeters (10 inches). However, there are many other sizes available:
• Ytong blocks come in lengths of 33.2 cm (13 inches), 39.9 cm (15.7 inches), 49.9 cm (19.6 inches), 59.9 cm (23.6 inches), and 64.4 cm (25.4 inches).
• Besides different lengths, there are also options for the height of the blocks. They are available in heights of 19.9 cm (7.8 inches) and 24.9 cm (9.8 inches) (20/25).
• For every construction project, Ytong blocks are offered in different thicknesses: 5 cm (2 inches), 7.5 cm (3 inches), 10 cm (4 inches), 12 cm (4.7 inches), 15 cm (6 inches), 20 cm (8 inches), 25 cm (10 inches), 30 cm (12 inches), and 36.5 cm (14.4 inches).
• If we use so-called thermal blocks (price?), we can skip additional insulation due to the good thermal insulation properties of these blocks. These thermal blocks are available in lengths of 50 cm (20 inches) and 62.5 cm (25 inches). The widths offered are 30 cm (12 inches), 40 cm (16 inches), and 50 cm (20 inches), with the height always being 20 cm (8 inches) for these blocks.
So, the recommended thermal blocks are not available in the 25 cm (10 inches) width I wanted.
The 25 cm (10 inches) block has a U-value (rendered) of 0.48 W/m²K.
This means it meets the requirements set by the energy-saving regulations.
When building without subsidies, it seems that inspections are not always strict, because the overall values (lambda) of the whole house also play a role.
That means windows and the type of heating system are included in the overall energy efficiency of the house.
As a result, some people have managed to get approval using 25 cm (10 inches) and 30 cm (12 inches) blocks, and if you live in the house yourself and are not renting it out, you don’t even need an energy certificate where this would be checked.
Apparently, this is somewhat unclear. Once I’ve worked through the details, I’ll post an update.
Since I have already started researching heating alternatives (heat pumps) because the oil price has really hit me hard this year, I realize I could almost get a new degree.
No more free time left!
Best regards to all fellow builders.
P
pffreestyler6 Nov 2018 11:30Just as an idea from a layperson: If you need 25cm (10 inches) wide Ytong blocks, but they aren’t available in that width – while blocks in 50cm (20 inches) width do exist – then you could rent a cutting machine (for example, we borrowed one from our shell builder) and cut the blocks in half.
Or would that cause structural issues with the blocks? We only did this on a small scale for a non-load-bearing wall to create a shower shelf. You would just need to check whether there are lintels or bond beams available in that size for the load-bearing walls.
Or would that cause structural issues with the blocks? We only did this on a small scale for a non-load-bearing wall to create a shower shelf. You would just need to check whether there are lintels or bond beams available in that size for the load-bearing walls.
M
Mottenhausen6 Nov 2018 12:53Are you aiming for the thinnest possible walls due to space constraints? In that case, a monolithic Y-Tong construction might not be the best option overall. What are your thoughts on a timber frame structure or calcium silicate bricks with external thermal insulation composite system (ETICS)?
The question is also to what extent the actual construction will ever be inspected, as long as it is built in the approved location and complies with setback requirements and so on. (You could submit the application with slightly thicker blocks but actually build with your preferred blocks...)
The question is also to what extent the actual construction will ever be inspected, as long as it is built in the approved location and complies with setback requirements and so on. (You could submit the application with slightly thicker blocks but actually build with your preferred blocks...)
Höhlenmensch6 Nov 2018 20:51@pffreestyler
There are 25cm (10 inch) blocks available, which I want to use due to space constraints. The question was to what extent they can be applied. Structurally, there is no problem. The question concerned the energy saving regulation / energy performance requirements!
@Mottenhausen
You’re probably right that if no subsidies are used, no one will check afterward.
There is nothing against using different building materials. My reason is:
I have already built with them, and it went great, like building with Lego. Fast and clean, since it uses adhesive instead of large amounts of mortar, and as a non-mason, that is a relief.
Greetings to all DIY builders
There are 25cm (10 inch) blocks available, which I want to use due to space constraints. The question was to what extent they can be applied. Structurally, there is no problem. The question concerned the energy saving regulation / energy performance requirements!
@Mottenhausen
You’re probably right that if no subsidies are used, no one will check afterward.
There is nothing against using different building materials. My reason is:
I have already built with them, and it went great, like building with Lego. Fast and clean, since it uses adhesive instead of large amounts of mortar, and as a non-mason, that is a relief.
Greetings to all DIY builders
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