ᐅ Sound Issue: Is Noise Transmitting Through the Masonry or the Exterior Render?
Created on: 31 Jan 2017 15:15
N
Nafetsm
Hello,
We built in a small suburb of Ulm, close to a secondary road with about 6,000 vehicles per day. The road is roughly 20–30 meters (20–30 yards) away, and there are still vacant lots on both sides of our property.
The construction uses Poroton bricks for the masonry.
During the sale, we were assured that noise would only be an issue through the windows, which is why we installed special roller shutter boxes and partly soundproof windows.
Currently, there is still scaffolding around the house, which is connected to the house and the ground. The exterior plaster has not yet been applied and will follow later. What unsettles us is that we can constantly hear the road noise, and depending on the wind and weather conditions, it becomes even more noticeable. This occurs on every floor and practically in all rooms, even those with soundproof windows (class 3). It feels as if a window is permanently tilted open. When we put our ear against the wall, we can clearly hear the noise coming through the wall. The sound is much quieter near the windows. It is clear that the noise is coming through the masonry. In areas where concrete columns have been inserted, no noise passes through. Around the house, there is naturally no vegetation yet, as it is newly built.
What has been your experience? Is this a common weak point of these bricks? Could the scaffolding, which is connected to the ground and the house wall, be transmitting the noise so clearly? And can we hope that when the exterior plaster is completed, the masonry joints will be sealed well enough to significantly reduce the road noise?
I am very interested in your experiences and opinions.
Best regards,
Patrick
We built in a small suburb of Ulm, close to a secondary road with about 6,000 vehicles per day. The road is roughly 20–30 meters (20–30 yards) away, and there are still vacant lots on both sides of our property.
The construction uses Poroton bricks for the masonry.
During the sale, we were assured that noise would only be an issue through the windows, which is why we installed special roller shutter boxes and partly soundproof windows.
Currently, there is still scaffolding around the house, which is connected to the house and the ground. The exterior plaster has not yet been applied and will follow later. What unsettles us is that we can constantly hear the road noise, and depending on the wind and weather conditions, it becomes even more noticeable. This occurs on every floor and practically in all rooms, even those with soundproof windows (class 3). It feels as if a window is permanently tilted open. When we put our ear against the wall, we can clearly hear the noise coming through the wall. The sound is much quieter near the windows. It is clear that the noise is coming through the masonry. In areas where concrete columns have been inserted, no noise passes through. Around the house, there is naturally no vegetation yet, as it is newly built.
What has been your experience? Is this a common weak point of these bricks? Could the scaffolding, which is connected to the ground and the house wall, be transmitting the noise so clearly? And can we hope that when the exterior plaster is completed, the masonry joints will be sealed well enough to significantly reduce the road noise?
I am very interested in your experiences and opinions.
Best regards,
Patrick
nightdancer schrieb:
Lack of planning, poor workmanship, and inadequate choice of building materials. I would exclude poor workmanship here, as it is not possible to assess that from a distance. Unfortunately, the planning and choice of materials have to be accepted as stated. A T9 on a road with an average daily traffic volume of 6000 is not exactly ideal in terms of sound insulation.
Hello,
using a 36cm (14 inch) T9 brick without insulation was probably not the smartest choice by the planner. But it’s too late now, the situation is set.
I would strongly advise against experimenting with foam insulation. Otherwise, the plaster might not adhere properly and you could end up with cracks. At least, that’s what your plasterer is likely to tell you, using it as a convenient excuse...
The exterior plaster should significantly improve things, as it did for us. We used 24cm (9 inch) T14 bricks, which should provide similar sound insulation performance to your 36cm (14 inch) T9 bricks. Before applying the external wall insulation (EWI) and plaster, you could hear sounds through the wall; afterwards, you can’t—now most of the noise comes through the window frames rather than the wall itself.
What you might consider is having a thicker layer of plaster applied.
Best regards,
Andreas
using a 36cm (14 inch) T9 brick without insulation was probably not the smartest choice by the planner. But it’s too late now, the situation is set.
I would strongly advise against experimenting with foam insulation. Otherwise, the plaster might not adhere properly and you could end up with cracks. At least, that’s what your plasterer is likely to tell you, using it as a convenient excuse...
The exterior plaster should significantly improve things, as it did for us. We used 24cm (9 inch) T14 bricks, which should provide similar sound insulation performance to your 36cm (14 inch) T9 bricks. Before applying the external wall insulation (EWI) and plaster, you could hear sounds through the wall; afterwards, you can’t—now most of the noise comes through the window frames rather than the wall itself.
What you might consider is having a thicker layer of plaster applied.
Best regards,
Andreas
Nafetsm schrieb:
Should the area be additionally filled with PU foam before applying the plaster? [...] Or are there any disadvantages to this?As @andimann already mentioned, don’t use foam here. Mortar belongs between the bricks, nothing else. Additionally, I would cover it with mesh, like around openings.
Nafetsm schrieb:
The masonry joints (which were left open due to tolerances in the structure)Joints left open because of tolerances? No, I am clearly in favor of “zero tolerance” and would even support introducing strict penalties. I suspect you are the victim of one of those irresponsible planners who have no understanding of brick dimensions and construction measurements and only know the wall thicknesses. They then, for example, evenly distribute an excessive 3 cm (1.2 inches) over a 2.77 m (9 ft) wide wall section across the vertical joints. This means, in this example, an average clearance of just over half a centimeter (about 0.2 inches) per joint. Thanks to the interlocking, you cannot see straight through, but this is not proper workmanship: the plan bricks are designed for dry joints—but not for interpreting the vertical joints as compression zones or clearance gaps. Of course, heat and sound will pass right through there.
The masons are not to blame, the planners should be held accountable—that is not their responsibility. There are no special compensating bricks for planners who ignore exact measurements. Therefore, the masons have no choice but to bridge measurement deviations smaller than thin format bricks with such improvisations.
Leaving air gaps creates a similar risk of plaster cracking as foaming (both are improper joint fillings). Mortar is the only suitable material here, and the labor costs for this should definitely be charged to the “planner.” For joints around 1.5 cm (0.6 inches), mortar alone is sufficient; for joints of 3 or 4 cm (1.2 or 1.6 inches), I would also apply mesh.
Just for the misuse of the term “construction tolerances” in this context, I would make the “planner” lay the entire next house by himself. That would teach him. Is the garage already built? That would be a good place to practice.
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Thanks for the answers! I was only referring to the small joints between the stones, about 2-5mm (0.1-0.2 inches) wide. The vertical joints. It’s clear that the larger joints are properly filled with mortar. But just sealing the small joints with expanding foam should help, right? Whether it’s a bit of a hack or not… as long as there are no serious consequences, my question is: what’s better—leaving them completely open and hoping the plaster will solve the problem, or sealing them with foam and then applying plaster over it? We’ll be doing a full-surface fiberglass mesh plaster. I’m just hoping that more really helps… and the explanation regarding T10 and plaster gives me hope…
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