ᐅ Ventilation in New Construction (Central vs. Decentralized), Noise Disturbance
Created on: 20 Jun 2016 20:41
K
Kiri123
Hello everyone,
I am currently considering the ventilation system for our planned new build (details: Kfw 70, 2 full floors + basement + unheated attic, hipped roof, 200m² (2,150 sq ft) living space). We live in a rural area and like to keep the windows open sometimes, so we don’t necessarily have to rely entirely on mechanical ventilation.
I am torn between a central controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, a central exhaust with decentralized supply air, and decentralized supply/exhaust with heat recovery. My requirements are:
• Ventilation of bathrooms (master bathroom, children’s bathroom without windows, and guest toilet without windows) with demand-controlled ventilation based on usage
• I want to avoid having to open windows every few hours while still maintaining high indoor air quality
• Not too noisy, as I am very sensitive to noise when trying to sleep
• I am also sensitive to dry air; for example, I cannot tolerate air from air conditioning or sports halls very well
Below are the pros and cons of each system as I see them:
Central Controlled Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+the most mature system
-expensive (I estimate about 10,000 to 13,000 Euros)
-more complex planning, including suspending and boxing in ducts
-(I heard from a provider of decentralized ventilation systems: as soon as I turn up the ventilation in the living room, more warm air is blown into the bedroom – not desirable)
-the indoor air quality in the prefabricated houses with controlled ventilation that we visited was always poor. That makes me skeptical
Central Exhaust with Decentralized Supply Air
+cheaper (maybe 2,000 to 3,000 Euros?)
+should meet minimum requirements
-energy wasted (or can I reuse the heat energy somehow? I am planning to install an air-water heat pump for heating and hot water production. Maybe the heat can be used here in a useful way). I was advised against a complete exhaust heat pump. Perhaps combined exhaust/fresh air heat pumps exist?
-cold air from decentralized supply? (I have read that with proper planning this is no problem because the supply air mixes “appropriately” with the existing indoor air)
-somewhat contradicts the idea of energy-efficient houses. Still, it’s probably more efficient than constantly having windows tilted open.
Decentralized Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+If I simply install one of these ventilators in the living-dining area, the master bathroom, and the children’s bathroom (+ exhaust in the toilet), the minimum requirements should be met. I estimate about 3,000 Euros (1,000 Euros per unit)
-if I want to cover all other rooms to avoid window ventilation entirely, it gets more expensive (maybe ~8,000 Euros) and:
-I would have many holes in the building envelope
-I hesitate to install these devices in bedrooms or children’s rooms because I think they may be too noisy.
Could you please help me with the decision? Maybe by sharing your experience or confirming or disproving some of my points? I would also like to see different ventilators in practice. Do you have any tips? I heard it might be possible somewhere in Berlin, but I live in the postal code area 5xxxx.
I look forward to your opinions.
Kiri
I am currently considering the ventilation system for our planned new build (details: Kfw 70, 2 full floors + basement + unheated attic, hipped roof, 200m² (2,150 sq ft) living space). We live in a rural area and like to keep the windows open sometimes, so we don’t necessarily have to rely entirely on mechanical ventilation.
I am torn between a central controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, a central exhaust with decentralized supply air, and decentralized supply/exhaust with heat recovery. My requirements are:
• Ventilation of bathrooms (master bathroom, children’s bathroom without windows, and guest toilet without windows) with demand-controlled ventilation based on usage
• I want to avoid having to open windows every few hours while still maintaining high indoor air quality
• Not too noisy, as I am very sensitive to noise when trying to sleep
• I am also sensitive to dry air; for example, I cannot tolerate air from air conditioning or sports halls very well
Below are the pros and cons of each system as I see them:
Central Controlled Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+the most mature system
-expensive (I estimate about 10,000 to 13,000 Euros)
-more complex planning, including suspending and boxing in ducts
-(I heard from a provider of decentralized ventilation systems: as soon as I turn up the ventilation in the living room, more warm air is blown into the bedroom – not desirable)
-the indoor air quality in the prefabricated houses with controlled ventilation that we visited was always poor. That makes me skeptical
Central Exhaust with Decentralized Supply Air
+cheaper (maybe 2,000 to 3,000 Euros?)
+should meet minimum requirements
-energy wasted (or can I reuse the heat energy somehow? I am planning to install an air-water heat pump for heating and hot water production. Maybe the heat can be used here in a useful way). I was advised against a complete exhaust heat pump. Perhaps combined exhaust/fresh air heat pumps exist?
-cold air from decentralized supply? (I have read that with proper planning this is no problem because the supply air mixes “appropriately” with the existing indoor air)
-somewhat contradicts the idea of energy-efficient houses. Still, it’s probably more efficient than constantly having windows tilted open.
Decentralized Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+If I simply install one of these ventilators in the living-dining area, the master bathroom, and the children’s bathroom (+ exhaust in the toilet), the minimum requirements should be met. I estimate about 3,000 Euros (1,000 Euros per unit)
-if I want to cover all other rooms to avoid window ventilation entirely, it gets more expensive (maybe ~8,000 Euros) and:
-I would have many holes in the building envelope
-I hesitate to install these devices in bedrooms or children’s rooms because I think they may be too noisy.
Could you please help me with the decision? Maybe by sharing your experience or confirming or disproving some of my points? I would also like to see different ventilators in practice. Do you have any tips? I heard it might be possible somewhere in Berlin, but I live in the postal code area 5xxxx.
I look forward to your opinions.
Kiri
BastianB schrieb:
Damn, so I should have just installed a lot more multimedia equipment and could have saved myself the normal heat generator Well, a gaming PC easily uses around 350 watts, and when the projector and sound system are running during a movie, that adds quite a bit more power consumption.
Payday schrieb:
It’s really true that an open window simply allows for much more air flow. We also fell into the misconception that the ventilation system cools the house in summer. The ventilation system is designed to reduce the need for airing in winter and to prevent moisture levels that promote mold.I agree with that statement as well. Completely correct.
Otherwise, the device would be called an air conditioning system.
But it’s “only” a mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery... as valuable and effective as it is, it doesn’t cool... it typically only provides warm air. And even with cooling options (which are expensive): folks, that never replaces an air conditioning system. Never. It just doesn’t work. If you want active cooling, you need to install an air conditioning unit in addition.
In summer (which I mostly lost somewhere in 2016, but when summer actually comes, not 2016), we turn off the mechanical ventilation system or set it to exhaust only. Anyway, we’re old enough to remember: the house has many windows; you can open them!
Summer bypass for mechanical ventilation: a completely pointless expense. As I’ve already mentioned here elsewhere: set it to exhaust only or open windows. Same effect.
PS: On August 11 and 12, I had to turn on the heating. Temperatures dropped below 6°C (43°F) at night, hardly over 10°C (50°F) during the day.
The number of days per year where I’d need air conditioning here: fewer than 10 (in 2016: 0.00000 days/year).
The mechanical ventilation system helps about 75-80%. Given the weather conditions here in NRW, it’s almost always running.
We have the ventilation system from our new build (1 year old) running at level 1 even during the summer. This way, every room gets fresh air regularly.
One important thing not to forget during planning: the ventilation system does not really cool in summer. Roller shutters prevent ventilation through windows. Two people can heat up a room in a newly built house simply through their radiant heat. Cooled down to 18°C (64°F) in the evening, it can rise to 22°C (72°F) in the morning with windows tilted open, roller shutters closed, and ventilation set to level 2 or 3. And without mosquito screens, you might also get some unwanted guests (they often enter at the edges of the roller shutters).
Things to consider when planning:
A full-house air conditioning system rarely makes sense. If you want to add something like that later, 1 or 2 rooms will probably be enough, with open interior doors allowing airflow. (For example, an air conditioner placed in the utility room blowing cold air into the central hallway.) Using air conditioning in the bedroom will almost certainly make you sick.
One important thing not to forget during planning: the ventilation system does not really cool in summer. Roller shutters prevent ventilation through windows. Two people can heat up a room in a newly built house simply through their radiant heat. Cooled down to 18°C (64°F) in the evening, it can rise to 22°C (72°F) in the morning with windows tilted open, roller shutters closed, and ventilation set to level 2 or 3. And without mosquito screens, you might also get some unwanted guests (they often enter at the edges of the roller shutters).
Things to consider when planning:
A full-house air conditioning system rarely makes sense. If you want to add something like that later, 1 or 2 rooms will probably be enough, with open interior doors allowing airflow. (For example, an air conditioner placed in the utility room blowing cold air into the central hallway.) Using air conditioning in the bedroom will almost certainly make you sick.
S
Sebastian7913 Aug 2016 08:51You definitely won’t get sick from that...
We have prepared the climate control system for four rooms in the house—all the bedrooms plus the living-dining room.
Climate ducts, condensate drain, and electrical wiring are all nicely installed flush in the walls, ready for connection. It didn’t cost even 500 euros...
We have prepared the climate control system for four rooms in the house—all the bedrooms plus the living-dining room.
Climate ducts, condensate drain, and electrical wiring are all nicely installed flush in the walls, ready for connection. It didn’t cost even 500 euros...
B
Bieber081514 Aug 2016 20:19Active cooling is not possible with an open window either.
Bieber0815 schrieb:
However, actively cooling is not possible with an open window.Unfortunately not, otherwise leaving windows open would be a viable business model, especially for frozen food companies or in hot climates… just kidding.
But if, for example, the indoor temperature is around 26°C (79°F) and the outside cools down at night to about 19–21°C (66–70°F), the incoming outside air can indeed cool the interior somewhat.
Similar topics