ᐅ Ventilation in New Construction (Central vs. Decentralized), Noise Disturbance
Created on: 20 Jun 2016 20:41
K
Kiri123
Hello everyone,
I am currently considering the ventilation system for our planned new build (details: Kfw 70, 2 full floors + basement + unheated attic, hipped roof, 200m² (2,150 sq ft) living space). We live in a rural area and like to keep the windows open sometimes, so we don’t necessarily have to rely entirely on mechanical ventilation.
I am torn between a central controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, a central exhaust with decentralized supply air, and decentralized supply/exhaust with heat recovery. My requirements are:
• Ventilation of bathrooms (master bathroom, children’s bathroom without windows, and guest toilet without windows) with demand-controlled ventilation based on usage
• I want to avoid having to open windows every few hours while still maintaining high indoor air quality
• Not too noisy, as I am very sensitive to noise when trying to sleep
• I am also sensitive to dry air; for example, I cannot tolerate air from air conditioning or sports halls very well
Below are the pros and cons of each system as I see them:
Central Controlled Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+the most mature system
-expensive (I estimate about 10,000 to 13,000 Euros)
-more complex planning, including suspending and boxing in ducts
-(I heard from a provider of decentralized ventilation systems: as soon as I turn up the ventilation in the living room, more warm air is blown into the bedroom – not desirable)
-the indoor air quality in the prefabricated houses with controlled ventilation that we visited was always poor. That makes me skeptical
Central Exhaust with Decentralized Supply Air
+cheaper (maybe 2,000 to 3,000 Euros?)
+should meet minimum requirements
-energy wasted (or can I reuse the heat energy somehow? I am planning to install an air-water heat pump for heating and hot water production. Maybe the heat can be used here in a useful way). I was advised against a complete exhaust heat pump. Perhaps combined exhaust/fresh air heat pumps exist?
-cold air from decentralized supply? (I have read that with proper planning this is no problem because the supply air mixes “appropriately” with the existing indoor air)
-somewhat contradicts the idea of energy-efficient houses. Still, it’s probably more efficient than constantly having windows tilted open.
Decentralized Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+If I simply install one of these ventilators in the living-dining area, the master bathroom, and the children’s bathroom (+ exhaust in the toilet), the minimum requirements should be met. I estimate about 3,000 Euros (1,000 Euros per unit)
-if I want to cover all other rooms to avoid window ventilation entirely, it gets more expensive (maybe ~8,000 Euros) and:
-I would have many holes in the building envelope
-I hesitate to install these devices in bedrooms or children’s rooms because I think they may be too noisy.
Could you please help me with the decision? Maybe by sharing your experience or confirming or disproving some of my points? I would also like to see different ventilators in practice. Do you have any tips? I heard it might be possible somewhere in Berlin, but I live in the postal code area 5xxxx.
I look forward to your opinions.
Kiri
I am currently considering the ventilation system for our planned new build (details: Kfw 70, 2 full floors + basement + unheated attic, hipped roof, 200m² (2,150 sq ft) living space). We live in a rural area and like to keep the windows open sometimes, so we don’t necessarily have to rely entirely on mechanical ventilation.
I am torn between a central controlled mechanical ventilation system with heat recovery, a central exhaust with decentralized supply air, and decentralized supply/exhaust with heat recovery. My requirements are:
• Ventilation of bathrooms (master bathroom, children’s bathroom without windows, and guest toilet without windows) with demand-controlled ventilation based on usage
• I want to avoid having to open windows every few hours while still maintaining high indoor air quality
• Not too noisy, as I am very sensitive to noise when trying to sleep
• I am also sensitive to dry air; for example, I cannot tolerate air from air conditioning or sports halls very well
Below are the pros and cons of each system as I see them:
Central Controlled Mechanical Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+the most mature system
-expensive (I estimate about 10,000 to 13,000 Euros)
-more complex planning, including suspending and boxing in ducts
-(I heard from a provider of decentralized ventilation systems: as soon as I turn up the ventilation in the living room, more warm air is blown into the bedroom – not desirable)
-the indoor air quality in the prefabricated houses with controlled ventilation that we visited was always poor. That makes me skeptical
Central Exhaust with Decentralized Supply Air
+cheaper (maybe 2,000 to 3,000 Euros?)
+should meet minimum requirements
-energy wasted (or can I reuse the heat energy somehow? I am planning to install an air-water heat pump for heating and hot water production. Maybe the heat can be used here in a useful way). I was advised against a complete exhaust heat pump. Perhaps combined exhaust/fresh air heat pumps exist?
-cold air from decentralized supply? (I have read that with proper planning this is no problem because the supply air mixes “appropriately” with the existing indoor air)
-somewhat contradicts the idea of energy-efficient houses. Still, it’s probably more efficient than constantly having windows tilted open.
Decentralized Ventilation with Heat Recovery
+If I simply install one of these ventilators in the living-dining area, the master bathroom, and the children’s bathroom (+ exhaust in the toilet), the minimum requirements should be met. I estimate about 3,000 Euros (1,000 Euros per unit)
-if I want to cover all other rooms to avoid window ventilation entirely, it gets more expensive (maybe ~8,000 Euros) and:
-I would have many holes in the building envelope
-I hesitate to install these devices in bedrooms or children’s rooms because I think they may be too noisy.
Could you please help me with the decision? Maybe by sharing your experience or confirming or disproving some of my points? I would also like to see different ventilators in practice. Do you have any tips? I heard it might be possible somewhere in Berlin, but I live in the postal code area 5xxxx.
I look forward to your opinions.
Kiri
We usually only air out the house for a while before going to bed, and at that time it is already noticeably cooler outside. At night, we always keep the windows closed because my partner prefers to sleep in complete darkness, and a closed roller shutter doesn’t let much air through anyway.
Kiri123 schrieb:
Thank you very much for all the responses here.
At the moment, I am leaning towards installing decentralized units from Meltem. I plan to use the two-room system three times, so that one bathroom/toilet is ventilated together with another room (bedroom, children’s room, study). In addition, there will be a standard unit in the living room.
This puts my material costs at about 5,000€ and I expect the installation to be quick and simple (flush-mounted set → installed directly into the wall plus laying 2-3 pipes).
This way, I cover all rooms at least partially, meet my minimum requirements, stay within budget, and avoid having to run pipes throughout the entire house and opening up ceilings accordingly.
Am I being too optimistic here?
Are the installation costs likely to be higher so that in the end I come close to the costs of a central system? And do I potentially need to be careful about the structural integrity if I run pipes between rooms? Or should I consider more factors for the installation of the fans than simply covering all rooms? I assume that details like air exchange rates/air volumes will not be fully addressed here (but as I said, I am not against airing rooms by opening windows if needed).
Also, I can imagine it being unpleasant if, for example, I am sitting in the study and the demand-controlled ventilation in the guest bathroom switches on, causing noticeably more air to be pushed into the study or the fan to become louder.
Additionally, do I need to create ventilation gaps in the doors so that air can circulate between the rooms?
Thank you!
Kiri@all
Does anyone have any advice for the original poster kiri123?
B
Bieber081529 Jun 2016 10:52ypg schrieb:
Does anyone have any advice for the OP kiri123? Just that we (after moving in, by the way) are very, very satisfied with the central controlled residential ventilation system. One of the best decisions in our house construction.
Gaps under the doors are not necessary; you can either have airflow over the door frame, use special door seals, or install transfer vents.
Hello Kiri123,
we are an independent ventilation consultancy based in Bernau near Berlin and have installed various devices and systems within a solid wall. They can be heard and experienced live. Noise perception is always subjective, which is why we created this comparison wall. Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages. The best approach is for customers to see and experience the options themselves and then choose the "best ventilation" solution for their individual needs. That is the only way to be truly satisfied. I would be happy to invite you to visit us in Bernau. Perhaps you can combine the visit with a trip to Berlin. We can also arrange the consultation on a Saturday if that suits you better.
we are an independent ventilation consultancy based in Bernau near Berlin and have installed various devices and systems within a solid wall. They can be heard and experienced live. Noise perception is always subjective, which is why we created this comparison wall. Each system has its own advantages and disadvantages. The best approach is for customers to see and experience the options themselves and then choose the "best ventilation" solution for their individual needs. That is the only way to be truly satisfied. I would be happy to invite you to visit us in Bernau. Perhaps you can combine the visit with a trip to Berlin. We can also arrange the consultation on a Saturday if that suits you better.
B
Bauexperte6 Jul 2016 11:01Hello Jörg,
However, this applies to you as well as to every other user: You should continue to stand out through qualified contributions; then interested users will find their way to your office on their own. What we do not want to see here is advertising for your own business; for that, you have sufficient opportunity in your profile.
Thank you and best regards, Bauexperte
HIGIL schrieb:We are pleased to have gained an expert in ventilation as a contact person!
I would gladly invite you to join us in Bernau. Maybe you can combine the visit with a trip to Berlin. We can also arrange the consultation on a Saturday if that works for you.
However, this applies to you as well as to every other user: You should continue to stand out through qualified contributions; then interested users will find their way to your office on their own. What we do not want to see here is advertising for your own business; for that, you have sufficient opportunity in your profile.
Thank you and best regards, Bauexperte
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