M
MiaWallace24 Nov 2010 22:02Hello, I am considering possibly building a bungalow with a flat roof, a floor area of 80 sqm (860 sq ft), with one story (timber frame construction due to structural reasons that don’t allow a solid construction) and adding a classic pitched roof on top.
What would this roughly cost???
Is it true that timber frame construction is cheaper than building a knee wall with masonry? I am thinking of a self-contained apartment with 3.5 rooms and a balcony.
Does anyone have any idea???
Could you get by with around 100,000 including upgrades like expanding the stairwell, utility connections, etc., with mid-range finishes???
Best regards,
Mia,
possibly a future homeowner…
What would this roughly cost???
Is it true that timber frame construction is cheaper than building a knee wall with masonry? I am thinking of a self-contained apartment with 3.5 rooms and a balcony.
Does anyone have any idea???
Could you get by with around 100,000 including upgrades like expanding the stairwell, utility connections, etc., with mid-range finishes???
Best regards,
Mia,
possibly a future homeowner…
B
Bauexperte25 Nov 2010 10:06Hello Mia,
Basically, this question cannot be answered quickly.
I had a similar case some time ago. In this specific situation, a bungalow with an L-shape—originally built in timber frame construction—was also supposed to be extended by adding an additional floor. Many factors are important: when and how the house was built, whether reliable structural engineering calculations are available, if the added floor can be approved without major effort and especially without damage to the ground floor, and so on… and you must find someone who takes responsibility for the extension; assuming that the local building authority will even grant a building permit / planning permission. Usually, this is the structural engineer responsible for the calculations, and from experience, they will not rely on the previous calculations done by the “colleague.” The builder you prefer will also have a say and will want to cover themselves.
The demolition costs—because it is quite complex—amount, depending on the size of the building, to a significant five-figure sum. Then the new floor is constructed (timber frame construction is likely recommended again)—which is also not exactly inexpensive. The connections should not be a problem since they already exist; however, the existing heating system will probably need to be expanded or replaced. Pulling electrical wiring further is usually not the issue, but expanding the electrical distribution panel is, meaning that the existing apartment will then require renovation.
Overall, such an extension usually does not pay off—in my experience, it is often more economical to build new from scratch given the expected costs.
Kind regards
Basically, this question cannot be answered quickly.
I had a similar case some time ago. In this specific situation, a bungalow with an L-shape—originally built in timber frame construction—was also supposed to be extended by adding an additional floor. Many factors are important: when and how the house was built, whether reliable structural engineering calculations are available, if the added floor can be approved without major effort and especially without damage to the ground floor, and so on… and you must find someone who takes responsibility for the extension; assuming that the local building authority will even grant a building permit / planning permission. Usually, this is the structural engineer responsible for the calculations, and from experience, they will not rely on the previous calculations done by the “colleague.” The builder you prefer will also have a say and will want to cover themselves.
The demolition costs—because it is quite complex—amount, depending on the size of the building, to a significant five-figure sum. Then the new floor is constructed (timber frame construction is likely recommended again)—which is also not exactly inexpensive. The connections should not be a problem since they already exist; however, the existing heating system will probably need to be expanded or replaced. Pulling electrical wiring further is usually not the issue, but expanding the electrical distribution panel is, meaning that the existing apartment will then require renovation.
Overall, such an extension usually does not pay off—in my experience, it is often more economical to build new from scratch given the expected costs.
Kind regards
M
MiaWallace25 Nov 2010 19:30Construction expert, thank you very much for your response.
I actually just wanted to know roughly how much the construction costs are. Not what difficulties might arise regarding the building permit / planning permission or structural engineering.
My architect, who has all the documents and plans submitted to the building authority and has reviewed them, confirmed that an extension using timber frame construction is possible (solid construction is not, as the load-bearing capacity is around 500 kg, while 750 kg seem necessary for a solid structure, if I understood the architect correctly).
However, since the property is currently (still) not in my possession, the architect understandably has not created any detailed plans for the extension and therefore cannot provide any cost estimates. But since I would like to know whether I am chasing a completely unrealistic dream or if I could actually manage this project, I registered here. That’s the only reason. To find others who have already extended a roof and can give a rough idea of construction costs.
That’s what I was interested in.
In the end, it is often said that a square meter of shell construction costs around 600–700 euros, and a square meter of finished living space about 1000–1200 euros, depending on the fittings.
I would like to know if this also applies to roof extensions and whether I could manage with 100,000 euros for 80 sqm (860 sq ft) of floor area or not.
Mia
I actually just wanted to know roughly how much the construction costs are. Not what difficulties might arise regarding the building permit / planning permission or structural engineering.
My architect, who has all the documents and plans submitted to the building authority and has reviewed them, confirmed that an extension using timber frame construction is possible (solid construction is not, as the load-bearing capacity is around 500 kg, while 750 kg seem necessary for a solid structure, if I understood the architect correctly).
However, since the property is currently (still) not in my possession, the architect understandably has not created any detailed plans for the extension and therefore cannot provide any cost estimates. But since I would like to know whether I am chasing a completely unrealistic dream or if I could actually manage this project, I registered here. That’s the only reason. To find others who have already extended a roof and can give a rough idea of construction costs.
That’s what I was interested in.
In the end, it is often said that a square meter of shell construction costs around 600–700 euros, and a square meter of finished living space about 1000–1200 euros, depending on the fittings.
I would like to know if this also applies to roof extensions and whether I could manage with 100,000 euros for 80 sqm (860 sq ft) of floor area or not.
Mia
6
6Richtige25 Nov 2010 20:40Hello Mia,
Stomping your foot won’t help here; you need to carefully read what the building expert wrote. But if it helps, I’ll take a guess: you should expect costs between €80,000 and €240,000 (approximately $85,000 to $255,000), depending on the scope of the work. Or to put it another way, I want to buy a trailer for my car, but I don’t yet know the exact specifications of the car. The trailer should have two tires and a loading area. Now, I read somewhere that you can get such a trailer for around €3,000 (about $3,200), is that correct?
You either invest a few hundred or thousand euros/dollars upfront in an architect or civil engineer, or you stay away from it. Because what good is it if someone else got a trailer for €3,000, but yours ends up costing €8,500 (about $9,000)?
Stomping your foot won’t help here; you need to carefully read what the building expert wrote. But if it helps, I’ll take a guess: you should expect costs between €80,000 and €240,000 (approximately $85,000 to $255,000), depending on the scope of the work. Or to put it another way, I want to buy a trailer for my car, but I don’t yet know the exact specifications of the car. The trailer should have two tires and a loading area. Now, I read somewhere that you can get such a trailer for around €3,000 (about $3,200), is that correct?
You either invest a few hundred or thousand euros/dollars upfront in an architect or civil engineer, or you stay away from it. Because what good is it if someone else got a trailer for €3,000, but yours ends up costing €8,500 (about $9,000)?
M
MiaWallace25 Nov 2010 20:59Okay, then I probably approached this with the wrong expectations.
As I said, I was just looking for a rough benchmark to get an idea of whether I need to let go of my dream or not. Currently, I don’t own this property yet, and it might still take some time before it’s decided whether I will get it or not. So, after my architect already started working on the plans, load calculations, and structural analysis, I just wanted to get some input here from others on the topic.
I don’t want to bother an architect by having them speculate over things that may never happen... I just thought I’d check in here.
But apparently, I was mistaken. It happens, so what?
Have a nice evening!
Mia
As I said, I was just looking for a rough benchmark to get an idea of whether I need to let go of my dream or not. Currently, I don’t own this property yet, and it might still take some time before it’s decided whether I will get it or not. So, after my architect already started working on the plans, load calculations, and structural analysis, I just wanted to get some input here from others on the topic.
I don’t want to bother an architect by having them speculate over things that may never happen... I just thought I’d check in here.
But apparently, I was mistaken. It happens, so what?
Have a nice evening!
Mia
Hello Mia
You won’t get a correct answer, not even a close estimate, no matter who you ask or where you post this.
Especially with renovations or building extensions (you are dealing with both here), estimating costs is even more difficult. No one knows what costs might arise from potentially unsuitable structural engineering... You want to add a balcony on top — what will it be supported by? Will it stand on its own? A 3 or 30 m² (32 or 323 sq ft) roof terrace… with what kind of surface finish… what type of railing… stainless steel… safety glass… this or that will ultimately mean huge differences in the budget, as it affects all trades involved!
The old roof has to be removed and disposed of… what is the old ceiling made of? It likely has no sound insulation or even statically calculated loads (live loads for residential areas) for an apartment… so structural reinforcement may already be necessary here, which of course costs money. The sewage pipes for the wet rooms need to be relocated wherever you want the bathrooms upstairs… The heating system (including possibly the hot water boiler) won’t be sufficient for two apartments… so a new heating system is needed. Is a separate stairwell required? Can this be done there, or must a new one be built?
As you can see, there are many questions that only your architect, who you already have, can answer because he—and none of the users here—has the relevant documents.
Basically, I can already tell you that the planned budget will by far not be enough, even before considering fees, which are added on top of the construction costs… if the project is even structurally feasible or sensible at all. If a lot of reinforcement or even replacement is necessary, your costs will quickly double compared to your initial estimate.
The right approach would be to first check whether this is structurally possible as is, or if only with certain measures. Those can then be individually priced, giving you a relatively reliable basis for deciding on the construction costs. Even though you would have to pay for these assessments up front, there is no way to make a confident decision about costs without them.
You won’t get a correct answer, not even a close estimate, no matter who you ask or where you post this.
Especially with renovations or building extensions (you are dealing with both here), estimating costs is even more difficult. No one knows what costs might arise from potentially unsuitable structural engineering... You want to add a balcony on top — what will it be supported by? Will it stand on its own? A 3 or 30 m² (32 or 323 sq ft) roof terrace… with what kind of surface finish… what type of railing… stainless steel… safety glass… this or that will ultimately mean huge differences in the budget, as it affects all trades involved!
The old roof has to be removed and disposed of… what is the old ceiling made of? It likely has no sound insulation or even statically calculated loads (live loads for residential areas) for an apartment… so structural reinforcement may already be necessary here, which of course costs money. The sewage pipes for the wet rooms need to be relocated wherever you want the bathrooms upstairs… The heating system (including possibly the hot water boiler) won’t be sufficient for two apartments… so a new heating system is needed. Is a separate stairwell required? Can this be done there, or must a new one be built?
As you can see, there are many questions that only your architect, who you already have, can answer because he—and none of the users here—has the relevant documents.
Basically, I can already tell you that the planned budget will by far not be enough, even before considering fees, which are added on top of the construction costs… if the project is even structurally feasible or sensible at all. If a lot of reinforcement or even replacement is necessary, your costs will quickly double compared to your initial estimate.
The right approach would be to first check whether this is structurally possible as is, or if only with certain measures. Those can then be individually priced, giving you a relatively reliable basis for deciding on the construction costs. Even though you would have to pay for these assessments up front, there is no way to make a confident decision about costs without them.
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