ᐅ Is the architect’s quote complete? Is the price reasonable?
Created on: 22 Jun 2020 23:21
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NeuerBauherrN
NeuerBauherr22 Jun 2020 23:21Hello everyone,
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
we have been following the forum for some time now and are looking forward to your experiences, tips, and advice.
We are planning to build our dream home in 2021 and have already had discussions with several companies (prefabricated house suppliers, general contractors, architect). Since we would like to plan with an architect (design phases 1-4), we now have a concrete offer but are not sure if it really covers everything, especially concerning the costs.
We have created a rough floor plan/sketch ourselves and provided it to the architect.
Facts
Project: Single-family house + double garage (solid construction) – nothing fancy or exclusive...
Location: about 100km (60 miles) from Munich, should be in Lower Bavaria
Construction costs: approx. 400-450k excluding exterior work & additional construction costs
Scope of services by the architect
1. Building regulations
- Ordering site plan, conversion, etc.
- Clarifying framework conditions, including building size, heritage protection, local regulations, etc.
2. Preparation of preliminary and design drafts for about 360sqm (3880 sq ft) gross floor area (GFA)
3. Approval planning
- Preparation of approval drawings with corresponding entries (section, facade, drawing title block, site plan, floor plans, etc.)
- Preparation of necessary forms (building description, building permit/planning permission application, parking space certification)
- Calculations (floor area ratio, site coverage ratio, GFA, living space, cubic volume, and cost estimate)
- Cover letter to obtain neighbors’ signatures
- A detailed cost estimate according to DIN 276 is not included; the cost estimate is prepared based on cubic meters or square meter prices according to the BKI.
Energy consultant, fire safety consultant, and structural engineer must be commissioned separately according to the offer.
The offer amounts to 11,000 net plus VAT, based on HOAI. Incidental costs such as plan pauses, copies, and site plans will be reviewed and passed on.
I have the feeling that something might still be missing, or does this really cover design phases 1-4 to the extent that one can approach general contractors to request bids afterward? I often read about shop drawings, which are not mentioned in the offer. The same applies to the quantity survey, or have I misunderstood something?
Overall, we have a good feeling about the architect (the chemistry is right, etc.), but 11,000 net is quite a bit and differs from what we had planned (max. 10,000 including VAT). Since some prices mentioned are significantly different, we want to ask again to be 100% sure.
What are your opinions on this? We look forward to a lively discussion.
Best regards from the Bavarian countryside
According to HOAI, design phases 1-4 account for 27% of the total fee based on your overall construction costs.
Just open the chart, check what is included in phases 1-4, and calculate it...
But to give you an idea, according to HOAI, for 450,000 euros, the fee for phases 1-4 is more than 11,000 euros.
Just open the chart, check what is included in phases 1-4, and calculate it...
But to give you an idea, according to HOAI, for 450,000 euros, the fee for phases 1-4 is more than 11,000 euros.
K
knalltüte23 Jun 2020 00:08Hello,
11K seems (very) low to me as well. The question is how much conceptual design work you expect (or are allowed to expect) in the preliminary design phase (phase 1)?
Gross floor area 360m² (3875 sq ft) = how much living space?
The amount mentioned above also seems low to me unless there are large unfinished attics.
The structural engineering costs can add another small to mid four-figure sum. We are at about 4K total for the building permit and the house together.
Who is going to handle fire protection? I thought that was included, but I could be wrong.
We are paying separately for energy consulting, but it is the same person (architect).
Are you planning to meet any KfW standard or have you not considered that yet?
11K seems (very) low to me as well. The question is how much conceptual design work you expect (or are allowed to expect) in the preliminary design phase (phase 1)?
Gross floor area 360m² (3875 sq ft) = how much living space?
The amount mentioned above also seems low to me unless there are large unfinished attics.
The structural engineering costs can add another small to mid four-figure sum. We are at about 4K total for the building permit and the house together.
Who is going to handle fire protection? I thought that was included, but I could be wrong.
We are paying separately for energy consulting, but it is the same person (architect).
Are you planning to meet any KfW standard or have you not considered that yet?
O
Osnabruecker23 Jun 2020 06:35The factory planning (and detailed quantity calculation) are not included in design phases 1-4.
With your quotation, you receive a building permit / planning permission and, broadly speaking, some colored drawings showing what your house will look like.
The construction planning and preparation for tendering (scope of work/specifications) are additional phases. With these, you can then approach construction companies and receive comparable offers.
With design phase 4, you can only go to companies and say, "This is how it should look"; they will then provide you with various offers, which you will need to compare.
With your quotation, you receive a building permit / planning permission and, broadly speaking, some colored drawings showing what your house will look like.
The construction planning and preparation for tendering (scope of work/specifications) are additional phases. With these, you can then approach construction companies and receive comparable offers.
With design phase 4, you can only go to companies and say, "This is how it should look"; they will then provide you with various offers, which you will need to compare.
N
NeuerBauherr23 Jun 2020 09:55Malunga schrieb:
According to HOAI, service phases 1 to 4 account for 27% of the total fee based on your entire construction costs.
Just open the table, check what is included in phases 1 to 4, and do the calculation...
I can tell you right away that according to HOAI, phases 1 to 4 for €450,000 (about $490,000) would be a fee of more than €11,000 (about $12,000). Yes, that’s correct, although the full €450,000 (about $490,000) amount never fully applies in the calculation. We actually received another architect’s offer a while ago, and that concerns the eligible costs, which are lower than the total project costs, if I understood it correctly.
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