Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
What is the cost comparison for EnOcean? Specifically for new construction with standard features like lighting, shading, switchable outlets, sensors, and occupancy detectors.
This is a genuine question because discussions about EnOcean almost always focus only on the switches.
This is a genuine question because discussions about EnOcean almost always focus only on the switches.
There is a well-known member of the Enocean Alliance promoting the idea of enabling a smart home at the cost of a traditional installation. I am not entirely convinced of this, but so far I estimate the additional cost to be in the low thousands. I am still in the planning phase of my own house, so I lack a straightforward overall overview of the costs.
Price examples:
4-button switch €26 (about $28)
4-channel actuator €40 (about $43)
Dimming actuator €40 (about $43)
Roller shutter actuator €40 (about $43)
Sensors vary widely, usually around €100 (about $107), and up to €200 (about $214) for outdoor sensors.
Switchable socket €85 (about $91)
If you take into account the saved wiring costs, some of the additional component expenses can be offset.
Price examples:
4-button switch €26 (about $28)
4-channel actuator €40 (about $43)
Dimming actuator €40 (about $43)
Roller shutter actuator €40 (about $43)
Sensors vary widely, usually around €100 (about $107), and up to €200 (about $214) for outdoor sensors.
Switchable socket €85 (about $91)
If you take into account the saved wiring costs, some of the additional component expenses can be offset.
rdwlnts schrieb:
What I can or cannot imagine is not for you to presume!A simple cable installation is being presented as an insurmountable obstacle. The fact is, it does not cause any problems at all.rdwlnts schrieb:
Especially not if you want to prove how flexible KNX is by saying that everything is actually planned from the start and sometimes renovated later. I call that inflexible, while you apparently call it flexible. Quite a curious argument.I don’t have to prove anything. I’m just providing information. Because apparently, there are significant knowledge gaps here. This is exactly how it works: with KNX you plan 99% in advance (this is also a major part of the final price), and that is usually sufficient. For most users, the system then works as desired immediately upon commissioning, and only minimal adjustments in the programming are needed during the initial period.If you don’t plan enough or not at all (which is often the case with many others) and just tinker away, then you rely on everything being wireless and nothing fixed anywhere. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be able to sell the devices. At the end, this often leads to spending even more and the system only works “somehow.” So why not choose something that has already left its infancy?
rdwlnts schrieb:
But always preaching KNX is the only true solution and everything else is just child’s play is unfortunately completely wrong.Unfortunately, I cannot ignore the facts. And once again, no one here is preaching, but rather providing clarification. Even after years, people come along with little or no knowledge on the subject and are usually glad to have their misunderstandings cleared up. Which system they choose afterwards is entirely up to them.The fact is also that many people (here in the forum) have chosen KNX and are very satisfied with it.
rdwlnts schrieb:
Price examples:
4-button switch 26€
4-channel actuator 40€
Dimming actuator 40€
Shutter actuator 40€
Sensors vary a lot. Usually around 100€. Outdoor sensors up to 200€.
Switched socket 85€
If you offset the saved cabling costs, you can make up for some of the additional component costs.No thanks, I’d rather go with KNX, as it is cheaper, more reliable, and more comfortable. The wiring itself usually isn’t as expensive as imagined. The bigger cost comes from larger distribution boards and the installation work. But these are needed with other systems as well, provided you want to do everything according to applicable regulations and “do it right” from the start. Admittedly, with KNX, distribution boards are often built about one third larger, but that is not mandatory.KNX also works with small distribution boxes and minimal wiring. For a low four-digit amount. That is another advantage: it can be implemented on a small or large scale, depending on what the customer wants.
rdwlnts schrieb:
And nonsense you should only accuse yourself of. EnOcean was founded in 2001, KNX was defined in 2002. EIB is its predecessor but not the same as KNX!I think it’s best to end this discussion here. It won’t lead anywhere. There is a lack of basic knowledge and understanding.
untergasse432 Nov 2019 18:50This is just like Apple versus Android—trying to convert others won’t get you anywhere. Just let him be happy with his wireless solution. If he prefers EnOcean over KNX, he should go with EnOcean. People used to think lightning was caused by gods because they didn’t understand it. There are also those who believe that having three Hue bulbs and two Wi-Fi sockets means they have a smart home. And if you add voice control for the Sonos speaker, what more could you want in today’s smart home?
Mycraft schrieb:I wanted to say this much earlier, thanks.
I think this discussion can be ended here. It leads nowhere anyway. There is a lack of basic knowledge and understanding.