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christian_m31 Oct 2019 01:29Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
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borderpuschl31 Oct 2019 08:05Hi Christian,
regarding your questions. It’s great that you are still at an early stage because planning for a smart home needs to be considered right from the beginning.
Since you consider yourself an experienced user of standard software, creating your own “programming” shouldn’t be a problem, as it’s more about configuration and linking rather than actual programming. The logic part requires some understanding of AND, OR, etc.
If you want to do it yourself, get an ETS license as early as possible. This will allow you to import the product database in advance, so you can see exactly what each device can do, choose your components according to your needs, and plan accordingly. You will still need an electrician who is cooperative because the approval process can be somewhat challenging.
Of course, there are standalone solutions for your requirements, but networking all trades offers many new possibilities you might not even consider yet. However, you will always need devices that support KNX, which makes device selection a bit more complex but not an issue with early planning.
Costs depend heavily on what you want to have interconnected and what you want or are able to do yourself.
As a rough estimate, I would guess between 50,000 and 80,000 euros (only a ballpark figure, but it heavily depends on what you want to realize or do yourself).
regarding your questions. It’s great that you are still at an early stage because planning for a smart home needs to be considered right from the beginning.
Since you consider yourself an experienced user of standard software, creating your own “programming” shouldn’t be a problem, as it’s more about configuration and linking rather than actual programming. The logic part requires some understanding of AND, OR, etc.
If you want to do it yourself, get an ETS license as early as possible. This will allow you to import the product database in advance, so you can see exactly what each device can do, choose your components according to your needs, and plan accordingly. You will still need an electrician who is cooperative because the approval process can be somewhat challenging.
Of course, there are standalone solutions for your requirements, but networking all trades offers many new possibilities you might not even consider yet. However, you will always need devices that support KNX, which makes device selection a bit more complex but not an issue with early planning.
Costs depend heavily on what you want to have interconnected and what you want or are able to do yourself.
As a rough estimate, I would guess between 50,000 and 80,000 euros (only a ballpark figure, but it heavily depends on what you want to realize or do yourself).
Yes, count on at least 50,000 euros for these pointless extras. As a standalone solution, you’re looking at around 10,000 euros.
You need to decide if such nonsense is worth 40,000 euros to you. If money isn’t an issue, go ahead. Otherwise, I would invest the money in more practical things like a ventilation system, finishes, or heating technology, and let grandma open the front door by foot instead of using a smartphone.
You need to decide if such nonsense is worth 40,000 euros to you. If money isn’t an issue, go ahead. Otherwise, I would invest the money in more practical things like a ventilation system, finishes, or heating technology, and let grandma open the front door by foot instead of using a smartphone.
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boxandroof31 Oct 2019 10:03From what I have read here and there, KNX is a lot of fun if you plan everything in detail yourself and preferably can do a lot of the electrical work on your own. Otherwise, functionality suffers and/or it becomes expensive.
Before building, I also had many ideas regarding automation. Once things became more concrete, priorities shifted. The technology (heating, ventilation, shading, irrigation, robots, photovoltaics) is now proprietary, not integrated, as simple as possible, and replaceable if necessary at a reasonable cost. Visible switches are only installed where absolutely necessary. It was important to me that I am not the only person in the house who can handle the technology in case of problems.
Central visualization is also possible without KNX.
By the way, the shading of our blinds and roller shutters runs according to an astro timer and is independent of the weather (control and switch costs 500€). Each year, I switch the timer between “summer” and “winter” settings. I find controlling shading based on sunlight or other non-timed influences appropriate for offices, but at home, I prefer not to have that.
Before building, I also had many ideas regarding automation. Once things became more concrete, priorities shifted. The technology (heating, ventilation, shading, irrigation, robots, photovoltaics) is now proprietary, not integrated, as simple as possible, and replaceable if necessary at a reasonable cost. Visible switches are only installed where absolutely necessary. It was important to me that I am not the only person in the house who can handle the technology in case of problems.
Central visualization is also possible without KNX.
By the way, the shading of our blinds and roller shutters runs according to an astro timer and is independent of the weather (control and switch costs 500€). Each year, I switch the timer between “summer” and “winter” settings. I find controlling shading based on sunlight or other non-timed influences appropriate for offices, but at home, I prefer not to have that.
We are currently building a semi-detached house with 149 sqm (1605 sq ft).
We also decided to go with a smart home system because if you are building new, it makes sense to choose the wired option.
Regarding costs... 50k..? That amount was never really considered.
I personally arranged for a smart home planner (in contact with the architect) who put my requirements on paper.
This includes MDT smart glass switches 2, motion detectors, and so on. Multimedia, heating, blinds, lighting (dimming, etc.), plus a few other things planned for future upgrades.
The total material costs are about 20k. This includes outlets, a weather station, programming, distribution panel assembly, and much more.
Labor costs would be additional. You can also do some of the work yourself if you have the time.
As Borderpuschl already mentioned, it’s a good idea to get an ETS license. The Pro version cost me €760. A test board is currently being completed, so I’ll have a tool to set up the system myself if needed.
Overall, we expect to spend around 25k for the whole system. Some parts will be installed and set up later.
We also decided to go with a smart home system because if you are building new, it makes sense to choose the wired option.
Regarding costs... 50k..? That amount was never really considered.
I personally arranged for a smart home planner (in contact with the architect) who put my requirements on paper.
This includes MDT smart glass switches 2, motion detectors, and so on. Multimedia, heating, blinds, lighting (dimming, etc.), plus a few other things planned for future upgrades.
The total material costs are about 20k. This includes outlets, a weather station, programming, distribution panel assembly, and much more.
Labor costs would be additional. You can also do some of the work yourself if you have the time.
As Borderpuschl already mentioned, it’s a good idea to get an ETS license. The Pro version cost me €760. A test board is currently being completed, so I’ll have a tool to set up the system myself if needed.
Overall, we expect to spend around 25k for the whole system. Some parts will be installed and set up later.
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Mottenhausen1 Nov 2019 12:49The discussion about how much a "smart home" costs comes up here all the time, and the range is huge, as you can already see again: after just four replies, the original poster now has estimates between €20,000 and €80,000 on the table.
I wouldn’t focus so much on the money. Ultimately, you have to see it as a hobby. Some people ride a $200 bike, others an $8,000 bike. Both reach their destination, but neither understands how the other can ride "that kind" of bike. It’s the same with KNX. If you want it, go for it, but also be aware that it will cost money that won’t be available for other things (like other hobbies). You don’t have to sugarcoat the argument about improved living comfort. While you spend hundreds of hours doing the work yourself, others just go to the light switch and manually roll down their blinds. Instead of showing off the latest indoor lighting scene, jealous visitors see the Camaro convertible parked in the driveway.
I wouldn’t focus so much on the money. Ultimately, you have to see it as a hobby. Some people ride a $200 bike, others an $8,000 bike. Both reach their destination, but neither understands how the other can ride "that kind" of bike. It’s the same with KNX. If you want it, go for it, but also be aware that it will cost money that won’t be available for other things (like other hobbies). You don’t have to sugarcoat the argument about improved living comfort. While you spend hundreds of hours doing the work yourself, others just go to the light switch and manually roll down their blinds. Instead of showing off the latest indoor lighting scene, jealous visitors see the Camaro convertible parked in the driveway.
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