Hello everyone,
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
I’ve been reading through various threads here for a few days now and have noticed that it always seems to come down to KNX in the end.
We currently live in a rental house where KNX is installed for the roller shutter control and the motion detectors for the outdoor lighting. There’s nothing smart about it, just networked. It could have been done with regular switches just as easily, but oh well.
As far as I know, the house and the system were built just before the turn of the millennium. In the last six months, 4 or even 5 actuators in the control cabinet had to be replaced. According to the electrician, it was an expensive experience for our landlord. That was also one of the reasons I was initially skeptical.
After reading a lot about it here in the forum, I would still like to give it a chance.
Long introduction, first the basic information:
1. We’ve just found our plot and are starting the planning phase with the architect. So I can’t provide floor plans yet. We did give him some wishes, but we’ll have to see what he comes up with. About 150m² (1,615 sq ft) of living space, 2 floors, no basement.
2. I would consider myself an experienced user of standard software, understand how an algorithm works, and can implement fairly complex rules with IFTTT. However, I can’t program. At most a bit of HTML, which probably won’t help me here.
3. We already use some smart devices. Hue bulbs, Osram smart plugs, for the sound system I chose MusicCast years ago instead of Sonos, entertainment electronics are controlled via Harmony Elite, and there’s an Alexa device as well. For example, my morning routine is set up through Alexa.
We’ve made the best out of the rental situation possible.
That’s also why my first thought was: Hey, just keep using Zigbee, it works...
There are certainly many use cases I haven’t thought of yet, but I do already have a few ideas in mind:
- Roller shutter control based on weather and time
- Alarm system control + visualization of open windows/doors, also on the smartphone when away
- Activating the alarm system when our two smartphones leave the Wi-Fi network
- Controlling the lawn robot and irrigation system based on soil conditions
- Visualization of photovoltaic output + battery storage status
- Video doorbell with door lock including remote unlocking via smartphone
- ...
As I said, we are still at the beginning and many ideas will come later.
For many of these approaches, there are standalone solutions, but naturally, they are difficult to integrate when new ideas come up.
Therefore, I have the following questions:
- Is there any alternative to KNX?
- Can costs be estimated in any way based on this information?
- Do you perhaps know a reliable provider in the Coburg area to talk to?
Thanks in advance for your input.
Best regards, Christian
Tego12 schrieb:
Never attack the KNX followers... They defend their system to the death! Unfortunately, neither side has presented any solid arguments.
Now I am being falsely accused of things. I never said that installing a conduit is an insurmountable obstacle. It would be nice to stick to the facts. What I said is that it’s not very flexible once you have to chisel open the wall. It’s doable or affordable, but not flexible.
I do not have any shortcomings. But thanks for your concern. I know how things work. And planning 99% in advance is KNX, but as I said, that is not flexible.
Compare the prices of the KNX components if KNX is similarly expensive. Until then, that statement is just propaganda.
@untergasse43 And then you are the one who believes in the horse because the car is just a temporary phenomenon.
I do not have any shortcomings. But thanks for your concern. I know how things work. And planning 99% in advance is KNX, but as I said, that is not flexible.
Compare the prices of the KNX components if KNX is similarly expensive. Until then, that statement is just propaganda.
@untergasse43 And then you are the one who believes in the horse because the car is just a temporary phenomenon.
untergasse432 Nov 2019 19:21rdwlnts schrieb:
@untergasse43 And you’re the one who believes in the horse because the car is just a temporary phenomenon.The car part is fine. But the internet won’t work...Don’t worry, I actually think EnOcean is great overall. The battery-free concept is, in my opinion, the most well-thought-out among wireless systems. And since it is a true standard, it’s clearly superior to a proprietary system like, for example, Loxone, even though that operates on a completely different principle.
What I don’t like, however, are direct comparisons like the one you make here between EnOcean and KNX. That’s nowhere near comparing apples and oranges. EnOcean is absolutely excellent for retrofitting or when the planning was roughly overlooked. But not for new construction when you control all the main lines from the beginning. These are just practical insights gained from many years in this industry. Always prioritize wired over wireless, anyone with at least some knowledge will confirm that. If wireless is the only option, then by all means, go for it.
Jäger has put together a great EnOcean program with the OPUS GreenNet, offering a really good product range. I currently have that in a project, but only because there’s no other way.
Just my two cents.
The components of Opus Greennet, as far as I know, are rebranded Eltako components. Eltako’s product range is also significantly broader.
Instead of a decentralized flush-mounted installation, I would recommend a central installation in new builds. Actuators mounted on DIN rails in the distribution board and technical room.
Flush-mounted actuators are more of a retrofit solution.
Push buttons and sensors can be connected via bus cables, but the system can also be expanded anytime with wireless modules, keeping it flexible. The advantage of wireless is that you can do it yourself and save on technician costs.
Visualization and programming are affordable and versatile, for example Openhabian (Openhab) on a Raspberry Pi. IOBroker, FHEM, NodeRed, etc. also achieve this goal. Apps for tablets or smartphones can be easily created as well.
Compared to KNX, this is cheaper. You can either see it negatively, as having to do some of the work yourself, or positively, as having the opportunity to do it yourself.
Instead of a decentralized flush-mounted installation, I would recommend a central installation in new builds. Actuators mounted on DIN rails in the distribution board and technical room.
Flush-mounted actuators are more of a retrofit solution.
Push buttons and sensors can be connected via bus cables, but the system can also be expanded anytime with wireless modules, keeping it flexible. The advantage of wireless is that you can do it yourself and save on technician costs.
Visualization and programming are affordable and versatile, for example Openhabian (Openhab) on a Raspberry Pi. IOBroker, FHEM, NodeRed, etc. also achieve this goal. Apps for tablets or smartphones can be easily created as well.
Compared to KNX, this is cheaper. You can either see it negatively, as having to do some of the work yourself, or positively, as having the opportunity to do it yourself.
untergasse433 Nov 2019 11:09rdwlnts schrieb:
I believe the components of Opus Greennet are rebranded Eltako parts. Eltako's product range is also much more extensive.Neither of them actually manufactures the products. They both source from 2-3 main manufacturers and simply have their own branding applied. The interesting thing about OPUS is that their gateway is currently the only EnOcean gateway certified for HomeKit. However, they don’t build that themselves either; it comes from Stuttgart.Similar topics