ᐅ Smart Home Roller Shutters / Venetian Blinds with Conventional Electrical Systems
Created on: 11 Oct 2020 13:39
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allstar83
Hello everyone,
we are nearing the completion of the detailed planning phase and the start of construction. I’ve already gone through the whole “I want everything until I want nothing” phase regarding smart home features. By now, I would simply like to be able to operate the roller shutters and blinds via an app.
Here are the requirements:
So far, it looks like only the Gira System 3000 with a Bluetooth module (remote control would then be difficult) is a candidate, or alternatively adding Shelly or flush-mounted actuators (e.g., Bosch, etc.).
I’ve already read and researched pretty much everything about KNX, Loxone, Hager Easy, Homematic, Somfy radio, Zigbee, Z-Wave, and similar systems. Somehow, I seem to be missing something simple or haven’t yet seen a solution that covers the above requirements.
What else is out there, or what would you recommend? Does anyone know the Gira System 3000?
Thanks very much for your experience and advice!
we are nearing the completion of the detailed planning phase and the start of construction. I’ve already gone through the whole “I want everything until I want nothing” phase regarding smart home features. By now, I would simply like to be able to operate the roller shutters and blinds via an app.
Here are the requirements:
- Wired switches
- Central switch for scenes
- Control via app / possibly also remotely
- Wind sensor is not necessary; I would prefer to control that remotely if needed. At work, this is handled with KNX, but it’s rather unsatisfactory (the shutters keep going up and down, etc.)
- I’m not keen on “old-fashioned” controls like small displays or astro timers
So far, it looks like only the Gira System 3000 with a Bluetooth module (remote control would then be difficult) is a candidate, or alternatively adding Shelly or flush-mounted actuators (e.g., Bosch, etc.).
I’ve already read and researched pretty much everything about KNX, Loxone, Hager Easy, Homematic, Somfy radio, Zigbee, Z-Wave, and similar systems. Somehow, I seem to be missing something simple or haven’t yet seen a solution that covers the above requirements.
What else is out there, or what would you recommend? Does anyone know the Gira System 3000?
Thanks very much for your experience and advice!
Yeah. I told him to offer both options.
However, I have no knowledge of KNX programming and I don’t want to have to call the electrician later for every little thing. When I told him that, he said the system would work without additional maintenance or programming after the initial installation...
However, I have no knowledge of KNX programming and I don’t want to have to call the electrician later for every little thing. When I told him that, he said the system would work without additional maintenance or programming after the initial installation...
untergasse4320 Apr 2021 09:23If well made, it will certainly require no changes or maintenance. However, experience shows that over the years you will want to make some adjustments. For that, there is now ETS Home, which should be sufficient. You just need to have the project file and be willing to spend 350 € (discount promotions are regularly available) on it. ETS is not rocket science; you can easily manage it if you’re interested.
@Alessandro
Come on, roller shutter control including weather station, smoke detectors, window/door contacts, a couple of motion detectors plus Hue and smartphone access. You don’t really want to claim that you need more than the knowledge of an apprentice in their second year for that, right? No matter what kind of overarching system you install in your home.
With no trade on a construction site can you confidently say that 100% of the workers really know what they are doing, even though they advertise it.
In my view, there’s nothing smart about this solution at all because it still requires several manual actions and basically just offers remote control with a tiny bit of automation (which often doesn’t really add comfort). For the average homeowner, though, that’s often the peak of what’s possible and definitely “smart” to the power of ten.
Come on, roller shutter control including weather station, smoke detectors, window/door contacts, a couple of motion detectors plus Hue and smartphone access. You don’t really want to claim that you need more than the knowledge of an apprentice in their second year for that, right? No matter what kind of overarching system you install in your home.
Alessandro schrieb:Exactly, that’s usually done by a skilled tradesperson or even a master electrician, and that costs something. But for the scope of functions, that’s nothing extraordinary and basically has been a ready-made template for a long time.
Just the documentation (which electricians are obligated to do) for the installation and commissioning costs a lot depending on the house and complexity.
Alessandro schrieb:Sure, but that applies to everything. Even a drywall installer who doesn’t really know their trade produces poor work. Or a tiler.
You first have to find an electrician who really knows KNX!
Unfortunately, I’ve experienced that about 50% of electricians have hardly any clue, even though they advertise KNX installations.
With no trade on a construction site can you confidently say that 100% of the workers really know what they are doing, even though they advertise it.
Alessandro schrieb:Yes, unfortunately that’s true, but it’s not limited to electricians. You can tell just from the claim that KNX is expensive… if an electrician says that, it’s perfectly fine to end the cooperation and look for someone else.
If the homeowner doesn’t understand the topic, the electrician can easily convince them that (supposedly) many things are not possible...
DaSch17 schrieb:Ah...finally someone who apparently knows what they’re talking about.
Our electrician advised against a wireless option and wants to sell us KNX.
DaSch17 schrieb:He’s right. It’s roughly on the level of working with an Excel spreadsheet.
Programming “would be no problem.”
DaSch17 schrieb:Well, what exactly does “smart” control mean? “Smart” is a very flexible term nowadays and leaves a lot of room for interpretation. For one person, “smart” means the blinds go up in the morning and down in the evening with one or two central switches plus the standard smartphone control.
We only want to control the blinds “smartly” for now and maybe add lighting later.
In my view, there’s nothing smart about this solution at all because it still requires several manual actions and basically just offers remote control with a tiny bit of automation (which often doesn’t really add comfort). For the average homeowner, though, that’s often the peak of what’s possible and definitely “smart” to the power of ten.
DaSch17 schrieb:He’s right here, too. Conventional electrical systems also run for decades without any input from electricians. KNX is no different. Nevertheless, interested laypeople or any IT-savvy user have various options to make small or larger adjustments themselves, happily from the sofa.
When I told him this, he said the system would work after the initial installation without further maintenance or programming...
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Alessandro20 Apr 2021 12:48I agree with you on that, @Mycraft.
However, I've also seen a lot on construction sites and projects, and many of the questions coming from so-called "experts" here are quite surprising, suggesting they don't have much experience with KNX systems.
Certainly, KNX offers are often significantly overpriced. The high price is usually justified by programming effort, and so on.
A layperson (homeowner) can't really grasp this and has to accept it. For many, the word PROGRAMMING is already associated with anxiety, and they cannot estimate the effort or the practical use at all.
For you, programming is a hobby or specialty, but for the 40-year-old pharmacist Kai-Uwe, it’s comparable to quantum mechanics or rocket science.
It's the same with energy issues. Just ask your circle of friends how many washing machine loads can be done with 1 kWh.
For most people, it’s simply not tangible, so you can tell them anything 😉
However, I've also seen a lot on construction sites and projects, and many of the questions coming from so-called "experts" here are quite surprising, suggesting they don't have much experience with KNX systems.
Certainly, KNX offers are often significantly overpriced. The high price is usually justified by programming effort, and so on.
A layperson (homeowner) can't really grasp this and has to accept it. For many, the word PROGRAMMING is already associated with anxiety, and they cannot estimate the effort or the practical use at all.
For you, programming is a hobby or specialty, but for the 40-year-old pharmacist Kai-Uwe, it’s comparable to quantum mechanics or rocket science.
It's the same with energy issues. Just ask your circle of friends how many washing machine loads can be done with 1 kWh.
For most people, it’s simply not tangible, so you can tell them anything 😉
Alessandro schrieb:
For many, the word PROGRAMMING already causes anxiety, and they have no way to estimate the effort or application involved. I completely agree with you. That’s why it’s important to explain to people what it actually means, as it’s only loosely related to what is usually understood by programming. Often, people think you have to constantly work on it and keep adjusting and reprogramming. That’s certainly not the case.
The more requests the homeowners express from the beginning, the more can be taken into account, resulting in fewer blind spots, and you might only need to revisit it when the renovation of the property takes place.
But things like scenes, schedules, or even simple if-then-else dependencies can be conveniently changed in KNX via the visualization or by using a smartphone or laptop.
From my own experience with what is currently going on in this field... solutions like Homeassistant, Node-RED, MQTT, etc., require at least two to five times the programming (setup) effort compared to KNX.
Too bad! I was hoping for more information on the Gira System 3000. Maybe it still makes sense to revive this thread?
My starting point:
Building a house in RP, the shell is complete, many things including the motorized roller shutters were predetermined, and overall we liked the planning with switches. But...
This is my third attempt at smart home systems. Apart from a very old proprietary roller shutter system, I have experience with the old Homematic. Then came the Rademacher Homepilot and now...? For me, controlling certain functions needs to be smart and comfortable, but definitely not via smartphone. I would personally prefer a large PC screen!
I am looking for a hybrid solution between conventional switch-operated control (senior- and dementia-friendly) and modern home automation (functional without remote access or internet cloud), which I mainly see as a comfort feature. It should also be simple and serviceable by any electrician. Ideally, it should be durable and not prone to errors. I’m okay with this costing more than what is visible so far. The current electrician seems very skilled with wiring but has never worked actively with smart home technology. 😳 For this reason, it should be very easy to replace regular switches with actuators.
So far, I have come across these systems:
1. Bosch Smart Home with roller shutter actuators and Gira switches (60€/roller shutter switch + central unit)
2. Gira System 3000 (due to the pre-installed Gira switches, about 100€/roller shutter additional cost)
3. Homematic with actuators for the switch box and Gira switches might also be an option
Are there other suggestions for such a rather conservative solution? Are there experiences with the quality of the actuators? From my experience so far, you only need to configure the roller shutters once with the astronomical function and adjust it later only if necessary. So why pay for expensive solutions?
A more advanced smart home system is not planned at the moment, as lighting control with the mentioned systems is possible, and other applications (e.g., door intercom system) will be handled by other solutions.
My starting point:
Building a house in RP, the shell is complete, many things including the motorized roller shutters were predetermined, and overall we liked the planning with switches. But...
This is my third attempt at smart home systems. Apart from a very old proprietary roller shutter system, I have experience with the old Homematic. Then came the Rademacher Homepilot and now...? For me, controlling certain functions needs to be smart and comfortable, but definitely not via smartphone. I would personally prefer a large PC screen!
I am looking for a hybrid solution between conventional switch-operated control (senior- and dementia-friendly) and modern home automation (functional without remote access or internet cloud), which I mainly see as a comfort feature. It should also be simple and serviceable by any electrician. Ideally, it should be durable and not prone to errors. I’m okay with this costing more than what is visible so far. The current electrician seems very skilled with wiring but has never worked actively with smart home technology. 😳 For this reason, it should be very easy to replace regular switches with actuators.
So far, I have come across these systems:
1. Bosch Smart Home with roller shutter actuators and Gira switches (60€/roller shutter switch + central unit)
2. Gira System 3000 (due to the pre-installed Gira switches, about 100€/roller shutter additional cost)
3. Homematic with actuators for the switch box and Gira switches might also be an option
Are there other suggestions for such a rather conservative solution? Are there experiences with the quality of the actuators? From my experience so far, you only need to configure the roller shutters once with the astronomical function and adjust it later only if necessary. So why pay for expensive solutions?
A more advanced smart home system is not planned at the moment, as lighting control with the mentioned systems is possible, and other applications (e.g., door intercom system) will be handled by other solutions.