Hello everyone,
We are currently at the stage where we have reserved a plot of land and have a fairly clear idea of the house we want to build on it. That means we have (of course amateur) floor plans drawn up and would like to show them to an architect to find out if our building project is
1. feasible in a similar form, and
2. what the approximate costs would be.
A first meeting with an architect
We had such a first meeting with an architect last Friday, who visited us at home. During the one-and-a-half-hour meeting, he took a brief look at the floor plan and a picture of a similar house. In his opinion, the project is doable. Question: Do we now have to pay several hundred euros for this? Will this meeting be charged to us?
He suggested as a first step to create a preliminary design based on our floor plans and then prepare a cost estimate, so that we can (of course only roughly) see where we stand. For this, he wants 4000, or rather 5000€ (!!!!!!!!!).
Our thoughts
- The architect’s initial estimate was around 700,000€, possibly more or less. We can comfortably afford 600,000€ and would prefer not to exceed this amount. However, the architect can only give more concrete figures after preparing the preliminary design.
- This preliminary design costs 5000€, which seems far too expensive for two reasons: first, the architect (70 years old) works without modern computer software. According to him, much of the drawing is done by hand. For 5000€, we would expect a truly modern design (with cross sections, 3D views, sun path simulations, etc.).
- Secondly, we feel uneasy thinking that the architect might deliver an old-school preliminary design with just a few sketches on paper, which would actually show costs of 700,000€ or more (thus well above our budget), and on top of that, we might not even like the result. Then what do we do? Say: "Sorry, we don’t like this, and besides, it’s too expensive"? And then we lose 5000€ (!!!)?
Our wish
- We would find it acceptable to pay 500€, or at most 1000€, for a preliminary design, but we can’t afford to pay 5000€ for more concrete information or insight into an architect’s work with every single architect before deciding whether to work together at all.
- We would now simply like to have at least one more architect (preferably 2-3 more) tell us in a free initial consultation (!) how they assess our rough plans for the project, whether it is possible within 600,000€, and how they would work with us.
Please don’t misunderstand us — we are happy to pay well for good work, but right now we feel like we are buying a pig in a poke this way.
Are we being too naive? Do we have to expect to pay several hundred euros even for an initial meeting? Are we approaching this out of touch with reality?
Thanks for reading and for your answers!
We are currently at the stage where we have reserved a plot of land and have a fairly clear idea of the house we want to build on it. That means we have (of course amateur) floor plans drawn up and would like to show them to an architect to find out if our building project is
1. feasible in a similar form, and
2. what the approximate costs would be.
A first meeting with an architect
We had such a first meeting with an architect last Friday, who visited us at home. During the one-and-a-half-hour meeting, he took a brief look at the floor plan and a picture of a similar house. In his opinion, the project is doable. Question: Do we now have to pay several hundred euros for this? Will this meeting be charged to us?
He suggested as a first step to create a preliminary design based on our floor plans and then prepare a cost estimate, so that we can (of course only roughly) see where we stand. For this, he wants 4000, or rather 5000€ (!!!!!!!!!).
Our thoughts
- The architect’s initial estimate was around 700,000€, possibly more or less. We can comfortably afford 600,000€ and would prefer not to exceed this amount. However, the architect can only give more concrete figures after preparing the preliminary design.
- This preliminary design costs 5000€, which seems far too expensive for two reasons: first, the architect (70 years old) works without modern computer software. According to him, much of the drawing is done by hand. For 5000€, we would expect a truly modern design (with cross sections, 3D views, sun path simulations, etc.).
- Secondly, we feel uneasy thinking that the architect might deliver an old-school preliminary design with just a few sketches on paper, which would actually show costs of 700,000€ or more (thus well above our budget), and on top of that, we might not even like the result. Then what do we do? Say: "Sorry, we don’t like this, and besides, it’s too expensive"? And then we lose 5000€ (!!!)?
Our wish
- We would find it acceptable to pay 500€, or at most 1000€, for a preliminary design, but we can’t afford to pay 5000€ for more concrete information or insight into an architect’s work with every single architect before deciding whether to work together at all.
- We would now simply like to have at least one more architect (preferably 2-3 more) tell us in a free initial consultation (!) how they assess our rough plans for the project, whether it is possible within 600,000€, and how they would work with us.
Please don’t misunderstand us — we are happy to pay well for good work, but right now we feel like we are buying a pig in a poke this way.
Are we being too naive? Do we have to expect to pay several hundred euros even for an initial meeting? Are we approaching this out of touch with reality?
Thanks for reading and for your answers!
wpic schrieb:
I have to disagree with YPG: architectural drafting software cannot be "used" by a layperson. While drawing is indeed a skill, in the planning and development of a construction project it is no more than a nice embellishment.I must admit: it was meant ironically (the layperson with the software).
BeHaElJa schrieb:
A total of 600-700 thousand euros already suggests a certain level of exclusivity. Not necessarily. Of course, it won’t be a 120 sqm (1300 sq ft) bungalow, but if you add a few more square meters here, maybe a basement, a garage, and a granny flat or secondary apartment, you quickly move beyond the 500 range.
B
Bauexperte29 May 2016 15:04Hello,
It doesn’t matter at all whether the draft is created by hand or with computer support, as long as it meets your approval. Expensive equipment does not automatically result in your dream home!
Merlin has already taken the “right” approach. Ask the current architect for completed projects and references, then contact the homeowners who approved those projects.
Another option is to use these additional free consultations to get a feel for whether the person sitting opposite you is on the same wavelength. During these talks, you can also easily ask to see some example designs; every architect has their own style, but it needs to appeal to you. What you must free yourself from is expecting an answer like “we can do this within your budget.” That would be unprofessional because architects can only provide estimates at this stage. If you want a fixed price from the start, a general contractor (GC) might be the better contact for you.
Regards, Bauexperte
Saarschwabe schrieb:No one here can answer that because we don’t know what you have already discussed with that architect before this appointment.
Question: Do we now have to pay several hundred euros for this? Will this conversation be billed to us?
Saarschwabe schrieb:Every service has its price; considering the HOAI (Official Scale of Fees for Services by Architects and Engineers), this is actually quite reasonable.
He proposed to start by creating a preliminary draft based on our floor plans and then provide a cost estimate, so we can (roughly) see where we stand. He wants 4000, more like 5000€ (!!!!!!!!!) for this.
Saarschwabe schrieb:That’s a layperson’s view.
- This preliminary draft is way too expensive at 5000€ for us, for two reasons: firstly, the architect (70 years old) does not use modern computer software. According to him, he does much of the drawing by hand. For 5000€, we would expect a truly modern design (including cross sections, 3D views, sun path simulations, etc.).
It doesn’t matter at all whether the draft is created by hand or with computer support, as long as it meets your approval. Expensive equipment does not automatically result in your dream home!
Saarschwabe schrieb:That would be the same situation if you did not like a computer-generated draft. So what is the difference?
- Secondly, we feel uneasy about the idea that the architect will produce an old-school preliminary draft with just a few lines on paper that shows a cost of 700,000€ or more (well above our budget) and that we may not even like it. What do you do then? Say, “Sorry, we don’t like this and it’s also too expensive,” and lose 5000€ (!!!)?
Saarschwabe schrieb:With all due respect, that is an unconsidered and somewhat cheeky statement. It’s roughly comparable to saying: if two-thirds of your students do not pass the semester with a grade average of B, we will reconsider your salary. An architect cannot deviate from the HOAI; they do have some flexibility, but no more and no less.
- We would be okay paying 500€, or at most 1000€, for a preliminary draft,
Saarschwabe schrieb:You can definitely arrange _free_ consultations with architects locally; whether any of them will provide a hand-drawn draft on the side, however, is doubtful.
- We would now simply like to get a free initial consultation from at least one other architect (preferably 2-3 more), to hear their evaluation of our rough ideas for the project, whether it could be done for 600,000€, and how they would work with us.
Merlin has already taken the “right” approach. Ask the current architect for completed projects and references, then contact the homeowners who approved those projects.
Another option is to use these additional free consultations to get a feel for whether the person sitting opposite you is on the same wavelength. During these talks, you can also easily ask to see some example designs; every architect has their own style, but it needs to appeal to you. What you must free yourself from is expecting an answer like “we can do this within your budget.” That would be unprofessional because architects can only provide estimates at this stage. If you want a fixed price from the start, a general contractor (GC) might be the better contact for you.
Regards, Bauexperte
BeHaElJa schrieb:
It seems like we built a dilapidated house.Definitely not. But right now, it feels like everyone wants to go crazy. 😡
S
Saarschwabe29 May 2016 20:31Thank you very much for your responses! I gladly admit to being a complete beginner in this area. Those were important pieces of information and also some fair warnings for us 😀 We will proceed exactly as Merlin and Bauexperte summarized in their suggestions. Thanks again!
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