S
Saarschwabe28 May 2016 20:04Hello everyone,
We are currently at the stage where we have reserved a plot of land and have a fairly clear idea of the house we want to build on it. That means we have (of course amateur) floor plans drawn up and would like to show them to an architect to find out if our building project is
1. feasible in a similar form, and
2. what the approximate costs would be.
A first meeting with an architect
We had such a first meeting with an architect last Friday, who visited us at home. During the one-and-a-half-hour meeting, he took a brief look at the floor plan and a picture of a similar house. In his opinion, the project is doable. Question: Do we now have to pay several hundred euros for this? Will this meeting be charged to us?
He suggested as a first step to create a preliminary design based on our floor plans and then prepare a cost estimate, so that we can (of course only roughly) see where we stand. For this, he wants 4000, or rather 5000€ (!!!!!!!!!).
Our thoughts
- The architect’s initial estimate was around 700,000€, possibly more or less. We can comfortably afford 600,000€ and would prefer not to exceed this amount. However, the architect can only give more concrete figures after preparing the preliminary design.
- This preliminary design costs 5000€, which seems far too expensive for two reasons: first, the architect (70 years old) works without modern computer software. According to him, much of the drawing is done by hand. For 5000€, we would expect a truly modern design (with cross sections, 3D views, sun path simulations, etc.).
- Secondly, we feel uneasy thinking that the architect might deliver an old-school preliminary design with just a few sketches on paper, which would actually show costs of 700,000€ or more (thus well above our budget), and on top of that, we might not even like the result. Then what do we do? Say: "Sorry, we don’t like this, and besides, it’s too expensive"? And then we lose 5000€ (!!!)?
Our wish
- We would find it acceptable to pay 500€, or at most 1000€, for a preliminary design, but we can’t afford to pay 5000€ for more concrete information or insight into an architect’s work with every single architect before deciding whether to work together at all.
- We would now simply like to have at least one more architect (preferably 2-3 more) tell us in a free initial consultation (!) how they assess our rough plans for the project, whether it is possible within 600,000€, and how they would work with us.
Please don’t misunderstand us — we are happy to pay well for good work, but right now we feel like we are buying a pig in a poke this way.
Are we being too naive? Do we have to expect to pay several hundred euros even for an initial meeting? Are we approaching this out of touch with reality?
Thanks for reading and for your answers!
We are currently at the stage where we have reserved a plot of land and have a fairly clear idea of the house we want to build on it. That means we have (of course amateur) floor plans drawn up and would like to show them to an architect to find out if our building project is
1. feasible in a similar form, and
2. what the approximate costs would be.
A first meeting with an architect
We had such a first meeting with an architect last Friday, who visited us at home. During the one-and-a-half-hour meeting, he took a brief look at the floor plan and a picture of a similar house. In his opinion, the project is doable. Question: Do we now have to pay several hundred euros for this? Will this meeting be charged to us?
He suggested as a first step to create a preliminary design based on our floor plans and then prepare a cost estimate, so that we can (of course only roughly) see where we stand. For this, he wants 4000, or rather 5000€ (!!!!!!!!!).
Our thoughts
- The architect’s initial estimate was around 700,000€, possibly more or less. We can comfortably afford 600,000€ and would prefer not to exceed this amount. However, the architect can only give more concrete figures after preparing the preliminary design.
- This preliminary design costs 5000€, which seems far too expensive for two reasons: first, the architect (70 years old) works without modern computer software. According to him, much of the drawing is done by hand. For 5000€, we would expect a truly modern design (with cross sections, 3D views, sun path simulations, etc.).
- Secondly, we feel uneasy thinking that the architect might deliver an old-school preliminary design with just a few sketches on paper, which would actually show costs of 700,000€ or more (thus well above our budget), and on top of that, we might not even like the result. Then what do we do? Say: "Sorry, we don’t like this, and besides, it’s too expensive"? And then we lose 5000€ (!!!)?
Our wish
- We would find it acceptable to pay 500€, or at most 1000€, for a preliminary design, but we can’t afford to pay 5000€ for more concrete information or insight into an architect’s work with every single architect before deciding whether to work together at all.
- We would now simply like to have at least one more architect (preferably 2-3 more) tell us in a free initial consultation (!) how they assess our rough plans for the project, whether it is possible within 600,000€, and how they would work with us.
Please don’t misunderstand us — we are happy to pay well for good work, but right now we feel like we are buying a pig in a poke this way.
Are we being too naive? Do we have to expect to pay several hundred euros even for an initial meeting? Are we approaching this out of touch with reality?
Thanks for reading and for your answers!
The basis for calculating the architect’s fee is the HOAI 2013 and the applicable net construction costs
- Applicable gross construction sum (cost groups 300 + 400): €600,000
- Applicable net construction sum approx. €500,000
- Commissioned service phases 1 + 2 (basic evaluation + preliminary design) including cost estimate according to DIN 276 = 9% of 100% of the fee
- Fee zone III residential buildings, standard requirements
- Fee rate: average rate
- Additional cost surcharge: 7%
- VAT 19%
- Fee according to fee calculator: €8,099
A serious preliminary design is not just a few lines casually sketched on a napkin over coffee. Have some architects explain their approach and working methods in a free initial consultation. That is absolutely fine. However, the planning work will be charged according to these fee rates. After all, it is a house whose construction costs would usually cover two modest homes. Effort and fees should be in a more reasonable proportion.
- Applicable gross construction sum (cost groups 300 + 400): €600,000
- Applicable net construction sum approx. €500,000
- Commissioned service phases 1 + 2 (basic evaluation + preliminary design) including cost estimate according to DIN 276 = 9% of 100% of the fee
- Fee zone III residential buildings, standard requirements
- Fee rate: average rate
- Additional cost surcharge: 7%
- VAT 19%
- Fee according to fee calculator: €8,099
A serious preliminary design is not just a few lines casually sketched on a napkin over coffee. Have some architects explain their approach and working methods in a free initial consultation. That is absolutely fine. However, the planning work will be charged according to these fee rates. After all, it is a house whose construction costs would usually cover two modest homes. Effort and fees should be in a more reasonable proportion.
I would consider the following points:
I. Ask to see examples from another construction project showing what work was performed for the €5,000 and what exactly was included (especially how they handle details).
II. If you still feel uneasy or cannot fully trust the architect, then choose another one whose methods suit you better.
III. There are also architects who work for less than the average fee based on the HOAI scale and whose quality can be verified through references. (For me, billing according to HOAI was a deal-breaker because the first €20,000 to €25,000 were hidden costs).
Best regards and good luck.
I. Ask to see examples from another construction project showing what work was performed for the €5,000 and what exactly was included (especially how they handle details).
II. If you still feel uneasy or cannot fully trust the architect, then choose another one whose methods suit you better.
III. There are also architects who work for less than the average fee based on the HOAI scale and whose quality can be verified through references. (For me, billing according to HOAI was a deal-breaker because the first €20,000 to €25,000 were hidden costs).
Best regards and good luck.
A budget of 600,000 to 700,000 euros already suggests a certain level of exclusivity. Just ask the gentlemen for references... then you can see what is possible. Whether it’s 3D, 4D, or top-quality design, what good is it if the plan itself is useless? Do you think people before 1990 only built ugly, poor-quality houses because computer technology wasn’t as advanced back then?
The architectural drawing is the medium of representation; what really matters is the built result. It makes no difference whether the construction plans were drawn by hand, with ink and technical pens on tracing paper, or created digitally in 2D or 3D. However, a digitally produced design is not inherently more modern or up-to-date than a hand-drawn version if the original concept is not sound.
I must disagree with YPG: laypeople cannot simply "use" architectural design software. While drawing is indeed a skill, in the planning and development of a construction project it is no more than a pleasing embellishment.
I must disagree with YPG: laypeople cannot simply "use" architectural design software. While drawing is indeed a skill, in the planning and development of a construction project it is no more than a pleasing embellishment.
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