Hello Peter,
my wife and I are currently planning a major renovation of our house, and among other things, the topic of upgrading the heating system has come up.
We have also come across infrared heaters but are unsure whether this type of heating makes sense given the electricity prices and other factors.
Does anyone here possibly have experience with such a heating system and can share some insights?
Best regards,
Peter and Hannelore
my wife and I are currently planning a major renovation of our house, and among other things, the topic of upgrading the heating system has come up.
We have also come across infrared heaters but are unsure whether this type of heating makes sense given the electricity prices and other factors.
Does anyone here possibly have experience with such a heating system and can share some insights?
Best regards,
Peter and Hannelore
P
pagoni202010 Feb 2022 16:33Hello Hannelore & Peter,
I’ll give it a try......
We recently installed an infrared (IR) heating system in our new build, which is now operational, but I can’t provide any long-term experience yet. Our concerns were similar to yours; for example, our neighbor’s new heat pump makes a humming noise, and no one knows what will happen with it in 5-10 years.
We are familiar with classic radiator heating over many years, recently used underfloor heating for several years, and now IR heating. For us, underfloor heating would be last on the list because we don’t like the system’s inertia. Also, we didn’t want a screed due to our solid wood floorboards in the house, so we opted for a dry construction.
By the way, I won’t attempt to do any calculations here—that’s better left to others 😀
We also had various concerns but can already say that the type of heat is not noticeable in a negative way; it’s comfortably warm, adjustable as desired, and that’s it. Maybe I already have toughened skin everywhere or have become desensitized... also possible.
Certainly, a heat pump is a highly sensible system, but since @hampshire unfortunately stopped participating here with his great house featuring a wood stove + IR heating, it seems hardly anyone among new builds avoids heat pumps anymore. The few gas heaters here get a lot of teasing 😀 (just marking this as a lighthearted comment).
We should also not forget that heat pumps received extensive subsidies, and many probably installed certain technologies mainly for this reason. Without such generous support, I estimate there would be about 70% less controlled residential ventilation and 50% fewer heat pumps installed; that’s just my rough assessment. If IR heating were subsidized similarly, I’m sure it would also be widely adopted and considered a good option.
Originally, I wanted to share my system here, even with some self-criticism, but I refrained because anything other than heat pumps tends to be dismissed immediately, at least that’s my impression.
There is unfortunately little variety here, although other heating systems have their justification. Recently someone mentioned window heating but then dropped it; instead, you find countless calculations for heat pumps and underfloor heating, along with reports of endless sessions and programming issues that make me tune out quickly, since I simply want targeted warmth. Sure, that’s interesting and good, but it’s not the only option on this planet.
Ground drilling was not possible for us, and we had an unreliable general contractor (GC). When I see how our installer handled the underfloor heating and heat pump, I get dizzy. Everything was set to “auto,” and questions remained unanswered. We also didn’t want an expensive service contract for the heat pump.
So far, we are quite happy with this simple and functioning heating system, which cost us under €8,000 (about $8,750), with zero ongoing costs. One glass module broke during installation, was replaced free of charge immediately, and installed in 10 minutes. Some parts were misplaced on-site, also replaced for free. I wish I had received anywhere near this level of service from any other trade, apart from the stair builder.
We have a photovoltaic system being connected next week, along with a battery. That too can be endlessly calculated, but we went for it partly because we like it and don’t decide solely based on calculations.
We consciously decided against underfloor heating during the build. I like nice radiators on the wall that I can turn on or off as needed. Most of our heating elements are glass panels, some even recessed into the ceiling.
With underfloor heating, I often had to open all the windows if the sun was shining outside to cool down quickly—what nonsense. Also, we wanted the option to heat the guest room spontaneously when visitors come, which is not really possible with underfloor heating. Lastly, a wood stove is often difficult to combine with underfloor heating, which was a final reason against it, since a frequently used fireplace was a definite feature for us.
Despite this, we installed an air conditioning system because I don’t like heat in summer. Such an air conditioner is also a heat pump, so I can additionally use it as a heat source. Heat pump experts around here will tell you that an air-to-air heat pump is the worst idea and basically just a blower, but I don’t feel that way. Do those same people spend all day being blown on in their cars? We now have several heating options: wood stove, IR heating, and air conditioning/heat pump plus winter sweaters. For hot water, we have a separate domestic hot water heat pump from Vaillant, which has worked well so far; I like it.
What often gets overlooked in many calculations is the aspect of personal comfort—how I feel about the type of heat generation, handling, and ongoing costs. Especially since different occupants have different heating behaviors, and sometimes I don’t recognize my own behavior in what I read here.
There are modern architects who implement exactly these kinds of systems in stylish new builds, as well as energy consultants and engineering firms (less so in Saxony 😀) that will gladly recommend them and have references. Besides many “fairground” IR heating suppliers, there are also manufacturers providing full solutions to professional retailers.
What I can offer is that we have a phone call so I can explain things in more detail. You’re also very welcome to visit us if you are in Saxony and want to see it. For that, you’d need to send your contact information somehow, as private messaging is not yet possible for you here.
We asked the energy consultant about KfW55, and he ultimately suggested KfW40+.
I’ll give it a try......
We recently installed an infrared (IR) heating system in our new build, which is now operational, but I can’t provide any long-term experience yet. Our concerns were similar to yours; for example, our neighbor’s new heat pump makes a humming noise, and no one knows what will happen with it in 5-10 years.
We are familiar with classic radiator heating over many years, recently used underfloor heating for several years, and now IR heating. For us, underfloor heating would be last on the list because we don’t like the system’s inertia. Also, we didn’t want a screed due to our solid wood floorboards in the house, so we opted for a dry construction.
By the way, I won’t attempt to do any calculations here—that’s better left to others 😀
We also had various concerns but can already say that the type of heat is not noticeable in a negative way; it’s comfortably warm, adjustable as desired, and that’s it. Maybe I already have toughened skin everywhere or have become desensitized... also possible.
Certainly, a heat pump is a highly sensible system, but since @hampshire unfortunately stopped participating here with his great house featuring a wood stove + IR heating, it seems hardly anyone among new builds avoids heat pumps anymore. The few gas heaters here get a lot of teasing 😀 (just marking this as a lighthearted comment).
We should also not forget that heat pumps received extensive subsidies, and many probably installed certain technologies mainly for this reason. Without such generous support, I estimate there would be about 70% less controlled residential ventilation and 50% fewer heat pumps installed; that’s just my rough assessment. If IR heating were subsidized similarly, I’m sure it would also be widely adopted and considered a good option.
Originally, I wanted to share my system here, even with some self-criticism, but I refrained because anything other than heat pumps tends to be dismissed immediately, at least that’s my impression.
There is unfortunately little variety here, although other heating systems have their justification. Recently someone mentioned window heating but then dropped it; instead, you find countless calculations for heat pumps and underfloor heating, along with reports of endless sessions and programming issues that make me tune out quickly, since I simply want targeted warmth. Sure, that’s interesting and good, but it’s not the only option on this planet.
Ground drilling was not possible for us, and we had an unreliable general contractor (GC). When I see how our installer handled the underfloor heating and heat pump, I get dizzy. Everything was set to “auto,” and questions remained unanswered. We also didn’t want an expensive service contract for the heat pump.
So far, we are quite happy with this simple and functioning heating system, which cost us under €8,000 (about $8,750), with zero ongoing costs. One glass module broke during installation, was replaced free of charge immediately, and installed in 10 minutes. Some parts were misplaced on-site, also replaced for free. I wish I had received anywhere near this level of service from any other trade, apart from the stair builder.
We have a photovoltaic system being connected next week, along with a battery. That too can be endlessly calculated, but we went for it partly because we like it and don’t decide solely based on calculations.
We consciously decided against underfloor heating during the build. I like nice radiators on the wall that I can turn on or off as needed. Most of our heating elements are glass panels, some even recessed into the ceiling.
With underfloor heating, I often had to open all the windows if the sun was shining outside to cool down quickly—what nonsense. Also, we wanted the option to heat the guest room spontaneously when visitors come, which is not really possible with underfloor heating. Lastly, a wood stove is often difficult to combine with underfloor heating, which was a final reason against it, since a frequently used fireplace was a definite feature for us.
Despite this, we installed an air conditioning system because I don’t like heat in summer. Such an air conditioner is also a heat pump, so I can additionally use it as a heat source. Heat pump experts around here will tell you that an air-to-air heat pump is the worst idea and basically just a blower, but I don’t feel that way. Do those same people spend all day being blown on in their cars? We now have several heating options: wood stove, IR heating, and air conditioning/heat pump plus winter sweaters. For hot water, we have a separate domestic hot water heat pump from Vaillant, which has worked well so far; I like it.
What often gets overlooked in many calculations is the aspect of personal comfort—how I feel about the type of heat generation, handling, and ongoing costs. Especially since different occupants have different heating behaviors, and sometimes I don’t recognize my own behavior in what I read here.
There are modern architects who implement exactly these kinds of systems in stylish new builds, as well as energy consultants and engineering firms (less so in Saxony 😀) that will gladly recommend them and have references. Besides many “fairground” IR heating suppliers, there are also manufacturers providing full solutions to professional retailers.
What I can offer is that we have a phone call so I can explain things in more detail. You’re also very welcome to visit us if you are in Saxony and want to see it. For that, you’d need to send your contact information somehow, as private messaging is not yet possible for you here.
We asked the energy consultant about KfW55, and he ultimately suggested KfW40+.
As I understand infrared heaters, they work quite locally and do not warm the air, but rather the body. This has specific advantages outdoors because the heat is not "blown away."
However, in living spaces, I believe they are unsuitable as the sole heating source, or is my understanding incorrect?
However, in living spaces, I believe they are unsuitable as the sole heating source, or is my understanding incorrect?
P
pagoni202010 Feb 2022 16:42Hamburch schrieb:
As I understand infrared heaters, they work quite locally and don’t heat the air, but rather the body. This has certain advantages outdoors because the warmth isn’t easily blown away by the wind. However, in living spaces, in my opinion, they are completely unsuitable, or is my understanding incorrect?My experience is different; I definitely don’t feel “directly exposed” to the heat. By the way, none of the heating elements are running at the moment, so apparently the house insulation is quite effective. We don’t notice where the warmth is coming from—it’s just comfortably warm. I even bought a temperature measuring device specifically to check up near the ceiling to see if and which elements are currently on. They are programmed anyway, or there is a thermostat that switches them on as needed. But as I said, I’m far from trying to convince anyone—I’m just sharing my current experience and happy to answer questions.A
altoderneu10 Feb 2022 17:06pagoni2020 schrieb:
When I look at the underfloor heating and heat pump with our installer, it makes me dizzy. Everything was set to "auto," and questions couldn’t be answered. Shouldn’t the first step be to change the installer?pagoni2020 schrieb:
Subsequent costs zero. A heating system that DOES NOT require expensive energy?Can you tell me more about that?
P
PeterPaule10 Feb 2022 17:18Wow, what a response...
Thank you all very much, especially @pagoni2020!! That helps us a great deal.
Unfortunately, we are not from Saxony; we ended up in the far north (but thanks for the offer 😀). Still, many thanks for your detailed report. We also imagine that the warmth isn't unpleasant at all. Of course, that is a subjective feeling.
We have also experienced that the warmth from underfloor heating takes some time to "air out." It similarly takes quite a while before it warms the entire house. Fine-tuning is also a bit tricky. In comparison, the whole process sounds quite different with infrared heating.
So, many thanks first of all for the wide-ranging and numerous feedback; that is a lot of input 😀
Best regards in sunny weather
Peter and Hannelore
Thank you all very much, especially @pagoni2020!! That helps us a great deal.
Unfortunately, we are not from Saxony; we ended up in the far north (but thanks for the offer 😀). Still, many thanks for your detailed report. We also imagine that the warmth isn't unpleasant at all. Of course, that is a subjective feeling.
We have also experienced that the warmth from underfloor heating takes some time to "air out." It similarly takes quite a while before it warms the entire house. Fine-tuning is also a bit tricky. In comparison, the whole process sounds quite different with infrared heating.
So, many thanks first of all for the wide-ranging and numerous feedback; that is a lot of input 😀
Best regards in sunny weather
Peter and Hannelore
P
PeterPaule10 Feb 2022 17:21altoderneu schrieb:
Shouldn't the first step be to change the installer?
A heating system that DOES NOT require expensive energy?
Can you tell us more about that!Oh yes, regarding the missing follow-up costs, we are obviously very curious as well..
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