ᐅ Photovoltaics at Any Cost – Current Situation and Available Options
Created on: 31 Jul 2022 13:22
H
HnghusBY
Hello everyone,
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
After countless rejections due to overload, availability, and delivery issues, I have finally received an offer for a photovoltaic system.
The system is planned for our new build (completion in 2023). We have a gable roof, almost south-facing, with a 30-degree pitch, fully usable, about 50 sqm (540 sq ft) of roof area per side.
The house is being built in Bavaria, about 60 km (37 miles) from Thuringia.
The offer surprised me a bit. The following items are included:
14x MAXEON modules at 430 W each, heat pump system, totaling 6.02 kWp - €11,138
1x Tesla Powerwall 2.0, 13.5 kWh - €10,400
Installation, etc. - €3,130
Total: €24,668 net
I find that quite expensive. I would leave out the battery anyway, but even then, I think the price for the 6 kWp system is too high. Apparently, this is currently the price you pay in Bavaria if you can find someone at all. For me, the question is whether it even makes sense to invest right now or just pay for electricity. Of course, it’s a matter of calculation, but if you follow the discussions here, those prices seem sky-high — or not?
Is it better to get offers from other regions? Are there any recommendations around the 97XXX area?
W
WilderSueden27 Nov 2022 09:39The issues with small wind turbines are
1. high cost
2. low output compared to photovoltaic systems
3. near-ground wind in residential areas is turbulent and heavily reduced
4. maintenance requirements due to moving parts
5. vibrations/noise from moving parts (particularly problematic when mounted on the house)
6. wear and tear from moving parts
And yes, there are turbines with fewer moving parts, but this comes at the expense of their already poor efficiency. Economies of scale are very significant in wind energy, and downsizing leads to many inverse scale effects. In contrast, photovoltaic systems use the same module repeatedly in large installations, sometimes tens of thousands of times. Problem number 3 cannot fundamentally be solved anyway.
In general, for the foreseeable future (at least 10 years), a photovoltaic system will almost always outperform a wind turbine for a single-family home. I will even go out on a limb and claim that a photovoltaic system combined with energy storage will outperform a wind turbine. That brings us to a third-order investment consideration.
1. high cost
2. low output compared to photovoltaic systems
3. near-ground wind in residential areas is turbulent and heavily reduced
4. maintenance requirements due to moving parts
5. vibrations/noise from moving parts (particularly problematic when mounted on the house)
6. wear and tear from moving parts
And yes, there are turbines with fewer moving parts, but this comes at the expense of their already poor efficiency. Economies of scale are very significant in wind energy, and downsizing leads to many inverse scale effects. In contrast, photovoltaic systems use the same module repeatedly in large installations, sometimes tens of thousands of times. Problem number 3 cannot fundamentally be solved anyway.
In general, for the foreseeable future (at least 10 years), a photovoltaic system will almost always outperform a wind turbine for a single-family home. I will even go out on a limb and claim that a photovoltaic system combined with energy storage will outperform a wind turbine. That brings us to a third-order investment consideration.
SumsumBiene27 Nov 2022 11:50I apparently read different articles. They mentioned something about being cheaper and more effective.
HausiKlausi schrieb:
If that happens (of course not because of you!), we basically live around the corner... Three days more or less won’t make much difference. Although stealing the modules will be much harder.I’m in too, in for a penny, in for a pound,
I’ll bring the playing cards into the cell.
M
motorradsilke27 Nov 2022 12:53SumsumBiene schrieb:
Apparently, I read different articles. They mentioned something about being cheaper and more efficient.I’ve read something similar. Wind turbines in fence-like designs, less prone to failure, very efficient, but not yet ready for mass production. Maybe our government will manage to invest some funding into these projects and their production.
In general, I hope the turbines become more affordable again when China moves away from its zero-Covid policy and similar manufacturing setups are established in other countries. We had that in Germany; if they hadn’t been allowed to go bankrupt but were subsidized, we would be in a better position now.
The necessary skilled workers could probably be trained within 2 to 3 years as well.
W
WilderSueden27 Nov 2022 12:54SumsumBiene schrieb:
Apparently, I read different articles. They mentioned something about being cheaper and more effective.At the moment, these are all prototypes. Anyone can make many claims, especially regarding the price. Genuine mass production is a completely different story.M
motorradsilke27 Nov 2022 12:58WilderSueden schrieb:
Currently, these are all prototypes. Anyone can make many claims, especially regarding the price. Real mass production is a completely different matter. Yes, but it would be worth following up on this. Almost everyone has a fence area or could install one.
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