ᐅ Plumbing Rough-In Inspection: What Should We Pay Attention To?
Created on: 18 Aug 2022 10:19
F
fromthisplace
Hello everyone,
We are now having the shell inspection with the plumber. We already selected the fixtures back in March.
1. About the heating:
Our initial scope of work listed two models. The reason given was: "Depending on which one fits your house better." The contract now specifies the Stiebel Eltron LWZ 5S. So, I assume that a heating load calculation has been done and that this system fits our house, or am I mistaken?
2. About the inspection:
I understand that we will finalize the exact locations for the water connections and toilets. One point is the utility sink in the technical room. We would prefer a full-sized table here and need to discuss whether the plumber will install this or if we are allowed to buy it from the furniture store.
3. About the underfloor heating:
As the client, do we have any say in this? I would like to express that I prefer a low flow temperature and to ask if they can lay the loops quite close together. Of course, this is more like telling the contractor how I would like their work to be done.
Thank you all.
We are now having the shell inspection with the plumber. We already selected the fixtures back in March.
1. About the heating:
Our initial scope of work listed two models. The reason given was: "Depending on which one fits your house better." The contract now specifies the Stiebel Eltron LWZ 5S. So, I assume that a heating load calculation has been done and that this system fits our house, or am I mistaken?
2. About the inspection:
I understand that we will finalize the exact locations for the water connections and toilets. One point is the utility sink in the technical room. We would prefer a full-sized table here and need to discuss whether the plumber will install this or if we are allowed to buy it from the furniture store.
3. About the underfloor heating:
As the client, do we have any say in this? I would like to express that I prefer a low flow temperature and to ask if they can lay the loops quite close together. Of course, this is more like telling the contractor how I would like their work to be done.
Thank you all.
F
fromthisplace22 Aug 2022 14:48I am currently getting familiar with the process. Tomorrow is the appointment with the plumber for the shell inspection. This primarily concerns the installation of the water connections, not the heating. However, I would like to clarify the following points to allow time for adjustments:
1. Request to see/have the heating load calculation for our house
2. Is the heating system specified in the contract (Stiebel Eltron 5 LWZ 5S) still confirmed?
3. What supply temperature is planned for the heating system?
4. How many heating circuits are planned, and what criteria were used to decide this?
5. At what spacing are the loops of the underfloor heating installed?
6. Where are the supply and exhaust vents for the controlled residential ventilation system planned?
From this, I have the following questions for better understanding:
Regarding 1: A heating load calculation is done individually for each house and must be provided to me as the client, correct?
Regarding 2: I assume whether the heating system fits our house can be assessed by comparing the heating load and the heat pump’s capacity, right?
Regarding 3: I understand that anything below 30°C (86°F) supply temperature is acceptable/good, is that correct?
Regarding 4: Can it be roughly said that one heating circuit is installed per room? For the living area, I would insist on three separate heating circuits. Is it possible to combine rooms into one heating circuit?
Regarding 5: In rooms that should be warm (bathroom, living area, children’s room), the loop spacing should be closer (less than 10cm (4 inches)), while in “colder” rooms (utility room, master bedroom, dressing room) the spacing can be wider. Is that correct? Do rooms like hallways fall somewhere in between?
Regarding 6: I want to ensure that the ventilation vents are positioned centrally in the room without causing disturbance (e.g., not directly above the sofa). Are there any other considerations we should keep in mind?
@Neubau2022 thanks for the tip. I found your thread. Could you please roughly tell me the page number that contains the installation plan?
1. Request to see/have the heating load calculation for our house
2. Is the heating system specified in the contract (Stiebel Eltron 5 LWZ 5S) still confirmed?
3. What supply temperature is planned for the heating system?
4. How many heating circuits are planned, and what criteria were used to decide this?
5. At what spacing are the loops of the underfloor heating installed?
6. Where are the supply and exhaust vents for the controlled residential ventilation system planned?
From this, I have the following questions for better understanding:
Regarding 1: A heating load calculation is done individually for each house and must be provided to me as the client, correct?
Regarding 2: I assume whether the heating system fits our house can be assessed by comparing the heating load and the heat pump’s capacity, right?
Regarding 3: I understand that anything below 30°C (86°F) supply temperature is acceptable/good, is that correct?
Regarding 4: Can it be roughly said that one heating circuit is installed per room? For the living area, I would insist on three separate heating circuits. Is it possible to combine rooms into one heating circuit?
Regarding 5: In rooms that should be warm (bathroom, living area, children’s room), the loop spacing should be closer (less than 10cm (4 inches)), while in “colder” rooms (utility room, master bedroom, dressing room) the spacing can be wider. Is that correct? Do rooms like hallways fall somewhere in between?
Regarding 6: I want to ensure that the ventilation vents are positioned centrally in the room without causing disturbance (e.g., not directly above the sofa). Are there any other considerations we should keep in mind?
@Neubau2022 thanks for the tip. I found your thread. Could you please roughly tell me the page number that contains the installation plan?
N
Neubau202222 Aug 2022 15:15fromthisplace schrieb:
I am currently doing some research. Tomorrow is the appointment with the plumber for the shell inspection. This meeting primarily focuses on the installation of the water connections, not the heating system. However, I would like to clarify the following points to allow time for any necessary adjustments:
1. Request to see/have the heating load calculation for our house
2. Will the heating system remain as specified in the contract (Stiebel Eltron 5 LWZ 5S)?
3. What supply temperature is planned for the heating system?
4. How many heating circuits are planned, and what criteria were used to decide this?
5. At what spacing are the underfloor heating loops installed?
6. Where are the supply and exhaust air vents for the mechanical ventilation with heat recovery planned?
From this, I have the following questions for better understanding:
Regarding 1.) A heating load calculation is carried out individually for each house and must be provided to me as the builder, correct?
Regarding 2.) To assess whether the heating system suits our house, I assume this is done by comparing the heating load with the heat pump’s capacity, right?
Regarding 3.) I understand that a supply temperature below 30°C (86°F) is considered acceptable/good, is that correct?
Regarding 4.) Is it roughly correct that one heating circuit should be installed per room? For the open-plan living area, I want to insist on three separate heating circuits. Can rooms be combined into one heating circuit?
Regarding 5.) In rooms meant to be “warm” (bathroom, living area, children’s room), the loops should be closer together (less than 10cm (4 inches)), and in “cooler” rooms (utility room, master bedroom, walk-in closet), they can be spaced wider apart. Is that accurate? Do rooms like hallways fall somewhere in between?
Regarding 6.) I want to ensure that the mechanical ventilation vents are positioned centrally in the room without causing disturbance (for example, not directly above the sofa). Should we pay attention to anything else here?
@Neubau2022 thanks for the tip. I found your thread. Could you please roughly indicate the page number where the installation plan can be found? S
SaniererNRW12322 Aug 2022 16:18fromthisplace schrieb:
1.) A heat load calculation is done individually for each house and must be handed over to me as the client, right? Actually, it’s done for each room, depending on the desired room temperature. The standard is usually 20°C (68°F) in living areas and slightly higher in the bathroom, but I personally find that a bit low.
As for handing it over—how are you building (developer, general contractor, separate trades)? The KfW efficiency level? What does your contract say? What has to be provided depends on these factors. So there’s no clear answer to your question.
fromthisplace schrieb:
2.) I understand that I can check if the heating system fits our house by comparing the heat load with the heat pump’s output, right? Yes.
fromthisplace schrieb:
3.) I’ve gathered that anything under 30°C (86°F) is considered good—is that correct? 30°C (86°F) is generally regarded as the standard for good system design. This refers to the supply temperature calculated for the coldest expected outdoor temperature in your area.
fromthisplace schrieb:
4.) Is it roughly correct to assume one heating circuit per room? I want three separate heating circuits in the open-plan area. Can rooms be combined into one circuit? No, the number of heating circuits is determined by the heat load of each room. A small room might have just one circuit, while a large room can have up to five.
Combining rooms into one circuit is generally not recommended and rarely done.
fromthisplace schrieb:
5.) In rooms that should be warm (bathroom, open-plan area, children’s room), the pipe spacing should be narrower (less than 10cm (4 inches)), and in “cooler” rooms (utility room, master bedroom, dressing room), it can be wider. Is that correct? Where do hallways fit in? Not exactly. The heating load (and the planned supply temperature) determine the pipe spacing. In bathrooms, it also depends on the available floor area and whether a wall radiator is planned as a supplement, for example.
By the way, in new builds there really aren’t any “cold” rooms anymore.
fromthisplace schrieb:
6.) I want to make sure the heating element is centrally positioned in the room without causing interference (e.g., right next to the sofa). Is there anything else we should consider? The positioning results from the overall system planning. There are basic rules and dependencies based on the building structure and the type of valves. A central position in every room would be very unusual. There are thousands of threads online about the “perfect” positions. In the end, no matter where the valves are placed, you won’t notice much with a system running at low output.
I would focus more on that: better to choose a slightly oversized system with appropriate pipework. The air velocity in two pipes is lower (at the same volume flow) than a smaller system forced to push its output through one pipe. You will notice the difference.
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fromthisplace22 Aug 2022 21:10Thank you all for your replies. 🙂
We are building with a regional general contractor. It’s not listed in the scope of work. There is only something about ventilation planning. I will just bring it up tomorrow.
SaniererNRW123 schrieb:
Even for each room. Depending on the desired room temperature. The standard is 20 degrees Celsius (68°F) in living areas and slightly higher in the bathroom. Personally, I find that too low.
Handing over? How are you building (general contractor, design and build, individual trade contracts)? KfW efficiency level? What is specified in the contract? What needs to be handed over depends on that. So there is no clear answer to your question.
We are building with a regional general contractor. It’s not listed in the scope of work. There is only something about ventilation planning. I will just bring it up tomorrow.
F
fromthisplace23 Aug 2022 23:01I’m sharing my experience and would appreciate your feedback:
The site inspection of the shell construction went very smoothly. I felt that the managing director of the plumbing company took the time to explain important points and objectively presented the pros and cons of different options, regardless of the potential extra work for his team.
When it came to the heat pump, he said it is well suited to our house’s heating load and definitely not oversized. He will send me the heating load calculation.
Based on this, the pipe spacing is planned to be between 15 and 20 cm (6 to 8 inches), with a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F). I then expressed my wish to reduce the pipe spacing in order to lower the flow temperature.
He responded that he generally understood my reasoning but would need to recalculate whether it makes sense. He said he would get back to me regarding any additional costs (more tubing and labor) and wanted to discuss both options with me again. His justification was that I shouldn’t assume that closer pipe spacing is necessarily better, and that his initial calculation fits our house very well.
Now I have the following questions:
1. What impression do you get from this experience?
2. In my line of thinking—“15-20 cm (6 to 8 inches) pipe spacing and 35°C (95°F) flow temperature are generally too much, because closer spacing and lower flow temperature are better”—am I making a mistake, or could the argument that “15-20 cm (6 to 8 inches) is actually the best fit for our house” be correct?
3. What have I not considered, and what else should be clarified?
Thank you all. 🙂
The site inspection of the shell construction went very smoothly. I felt that the managing director of the plumbing company took the time to explain important points and objectively presented the pros and cons of different options, regardless of the potential extra work for his team.
When it came to the heat pump, he said it is well suited to our house’s heating load and definitely not oversized. He will send me the heating load calculation.
Based on this, the pipe spacing is planned to be between 15 and 20 cm (6 to 8 inches), with a flow temperature of 35°C (95°F). I then expressed my wish to reduce the pipe spacing in order to lower the flow temperature.
He responded that he generally understood my reasoning but would need to recalculate whether it makes sense. He said he would get back to me regarding any additional costs (more tubing and labor) and wanted to discuss both options with me again. His justification was that I shouldn’t assume that closer pipe spacing is necessarily better, and that his initial calculation fits our house very well.
Now I have the following questions:
1. What impression do you get from this experience?
2. In my line of thinking—“15-20 cm (6 to 8 inches) pipe spacing and 35°C (95°F) flow temperature are generally too much, because closer spacing and lower flow temperature are better”—am I making a mistake, or could the argument that “15-20 cm (6 to 8 inches) is actually the best fit for our house” be correct?
3. What have I not considered, and what else should be clarified?
Thank you all. 🙂
fromthisplace schrieb:
3. What haven’t I considered yet, and what still needs to be clarified?Have you set your desired room temperatures?
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