ᐅ Ground Source Heat Pump for a 200 m² Single-Family Home with Underfloor Heating, KfW55 Standard – Settings and Optimization
Created on: 4 Nov 2021 20:21
G
grericht
Hello. We moved into our new single-family house in March. I didn’t make any adjustments to the heating system at that time. Now that the temperatures are rising, I’ve started to take a closer look at it.
House details:
Heating system details (descriptions from the invoice):
My previous attempts:
Questions:
Personal preferences:



House details:
- Single-family house with a (heated) basement + 2.5 floors (usable gable roof/also underfloor heating) -> 4 heating circuits
- approximately 200 m² (2150 sq ft) of underfloor heating
- 2 bathrooms WITHOUT additional heating
- kfw55 energy standard
- ventilation system with heat recovery
- Currently 2 rooms in the basement are unoccupied/unutilized + the technical room
- There are also 2 children’s rooms in the attic that are unoccupied/unutilized
Heating system details (descriptions from the invoice):
- High-efficiency brine/water heat pump Dimplex SI 8TU
- High-efficiency brine system SZB 140E for brine/water heat pump with electronically controlled brine circulation pump Yonos Para 25/1-10
- Multifunctional storage tank Geysir MTL-WP650 efficiency class B (150 mm (6 inches) insulation thickness) with connection options for multiple heat generators, with layering plate for large volume flows, capacity 850 liters (225 gallons), domestic hot water preparation using counterflow principle with stainless steel heat exchanger, including differential temperature controller and flow sensor for hot water tapping system
- Hydraulic connection of the heat pump to the multifunctional storage tank with precision steel pipe 28x1.5 mm (1.1x0.06 inch) including insulation, 1 zone charging pump Dimplex UPH 75-25P with shut-off set, switchable between heating and domestic hot water charging
- Integration of the heating system with heating circuit sets Easyflow DN 25 R1" with EPP insulation type 2 including 3-way mixing valve, mixing valve actuator and circulation pump Grundfos UPM3 Auto
- (ERR in 3/4 of the rooms) - currently switched off
- Cooling station Dimplex PKS 14 Econ for passive cooling via geothermal probes, consisting of heat exchanger, brine circulation pump, cooling modules for network operation with heat pump manager and temperature sensor
- Room temperature controller Dimplex Smart RTC, for optimizing weather-compensated control via a reference room
My previous attempts:
- Domestic Hot Water:
- I first focused on the domestic hot water preparation. Initially, it was set to 50°C (122°F) with a 2° hysteresis. For Dimplex, this means that heating started again at 48°C (118°F). This setup was basically fine, but even without any hot water use, heating occurred 2-3 times a day. Since the pump ran only very briefly, the average summer consumption was about 0.7 kWh/day.
- I then experimented with lowering the temperature, setting lockout periods, and increasing the hysteresis. Our "optimal consumption" turned out to be 50°C (122°F) and 7° hysteresis with lockout from 8 pm to 5 pm. This sometimes resulted in the pump not running for an entire day. However, energy use was only reduced to 0.5 kWh/day, meaning hardly any consumption reduction at the cost of noticeable comfort reductions. Currently, I am at 48°C (118°F) and 4° hysteresis with lockout from 10 pm to 5 pm. Since we mostly use hot water in the evening, this works well. For bathing or higher demand, the water is reheated if necessary. I am currently experimenting with 5 or 6 degrees hysteresis, as the heat loss during ongoing heating operation seems lower and we might be able to skip a day sometimes. We’ll see...
- Now, regarding the heating, my attempts:
- All ERRs switched off, heating circuits opened roughly by feel, and tried to adjust by regulation. Control was via fixed return flow temperature, which I tested between 23 and 26°C (73°F and 79°F). The consumption and COP results were very satisfactory. Unfortunately, I couldn’t get the bathroom above 22°C (72°F) without other rooms becoming too warm (rooms quickly reached 22°C, which I find too high).
- Turned the ERR back on in the children’s rooms.
- After a one-week vacation during which I completely switched off the heating, I started over. I tried the recommended approach of fully opening the warmest room (bathroom) to about 2.2 liters/min (0.58 gallons/min) and then increasing the temperature until satisfied. But this meant the heating was massively oversized?! The heat pump came on about 20 times for 10-15 minutes each, the supply temperature was nicely between 30 and 33°C (86°F and 91°F) but the temperature felt like it never really got away from the heat pump’s threshold. I am attaching a picture of the behavior.
- Suspecting insufficient flow and hesitant to adjust the heating pump, I slowly opened other rooms slightly.
- I also tried increasing the fixed temperature to 27 or 28°C (81°F or 82°F) and used hysteresis to make the pump run less often but longer. I am now quite satisfied with the temperatures in the house. However, the numbers still look a bit odd to me. I believe there are now many rooms/areas/storage volumes with such low flow that “cooled down” mass just circulates in the loop and eventually reaches the return line repeatedly. I don’t mind that but I also do not want to risk any damage. I will attach another picture.
- Lastly, I reduced the temperature at night and in the morning so the heating starts at favorable times. Currently, two starts of about 2-3 hours each are sufficient.
Questions:
- Am I completely off track here or are these approaches generally valid? Unfortunately, I can’t really rely on the heating engineer. He is surely competent but firstly hardly reachable and secondly probably overwhelmed by such optimization considerations.
- What about rooms that are unused? Should I use the screed as a buffer and keep them slightly heated (<0.5 liters/min (0.13 gallons/min)) anyway?
- I increasingly believe that managing the large temperature difference between the bathroom at 23°C (73°F) and the rooms at 20.5°C (69°F) is not well controlled – is there really no alternative to an additional heat source? We only use the bathroom for about 2 hours and in the evening for 4 hours at 23°C (73°F). Otherwise, 21-22°C (70-72°F) would definitely be sufficient there.
- Any tips on settings?
Personal preferences:
- The underfloor heating is off in the bedroom – yet it quickly reaches 19-20°C (66-68°F), which is almost too warm.
- In the 3 children’s rooms, the ERR closes from 5 pm to 3 am (for sleeping – with time delay)
- Other rooms 20-21°C (68-70°F)
- Open-plan kitchen/living room 21-22°C (70-72°F)
- Bathrooms 23°C (73°F)
A
Alessandro12 Nov 2021 09:28How do you come to the conclusion that I cool down the thermal envelope by ventilating crosswise for 5 minutes? This only causes an air exchange that blows out all the dirt that accumulates in the room overnight.
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RotorMotor12 Nov 2021 09:31Just briefly again:
The bedroom is heated by adjacent rooms.
The bedroom is still cold. Possible cause: poorly insulated exterior wall, or ventilation losses.
Basic physics.
The bedroom is heated by adjacent rooms.
The bedroom is still cold. Possible cause: poorly insulated exterior wall, or ventilation losses.
Basic physics.
Basically, I would plan for the bedroom to have heating just like the living room, especially if people are regularly using the room. This is particularly important in the bedroom! For us, two people sleep there every day. It doesn’t help me to know what temperature the room has after a two-week vacation – it might well be too cold then. In my planning, I factor in the presence of 2 people * 8 hours/day. From this, it seems almost impossible to maintain a temperature difference of more than 2 degrees compared to the hallway and the bathroom as adjacent rooms UNLESS I regularly open the thermal envelope and ventilate. In that case, I seem to be able to achieve an average temperature of around 19–20°C (66–68°F) during use (2 people * 8 hours/day), instead of 20–20.5°C (68–69°F), when the hallway is at 21.5°C (71°F) and the bathroom at 23°C (73°F). At least, I have not heard any counterexamples from Alessandro.
I would like to raise my questions again:
I would like to raise my questions again:
- Are the specified heat output values for heat pumps usually standardized and calibrated? Can these values be trusted, or are they (possibly even intentionally) optimistic? Are these values calculated and/or measured?
- Does it make sense to provide some heating to rooms that are supposed to be kept as cold as possible but border warmer rooms? For example, the bedroom? It doesn’t make sense to me, since the heat from 2 people * 8 hours/day plus heat transfer from neighboring rooms is already significant.
- Does it make sense to heat unused rooms that could serve as thermal buffers (e.g., cellar rooms), and if so, what temperature or heat input is recommended? With the door open, it’s almost impossible to keep them below 20°C (68°F) since other rooms in the cellar are occupied. They already benefit from the heat of those rooms without direct heating. With the door closed, they provide less thermal storage benefit?! Here, I would assume it could be useful to heat these rooms slightly, while lowering the temperature in adjacent rooms to maintain a uniform temperature throughout and thus increase the thermal storage volume.
- According to the hydraulic balancing calculation, my bathrooms should only have a flow rate of 0.9 and 0.7 liters/min (0.24 and 0.18 gallons/min). However, I have both valves fully open (>2 liters/min (0.53 gallons/min)). The house connection room, on the other hand, is specified at 15°C (59°F) with 2.2 liters/min (0.58 gallons/min) full flow (I was not consulted). In the house connection room, I set 0.5 liters/min (0.13 gallons/min), yet it still has 21°C (70°F) (the entire technical equipment is there). The bathroom has 23°C (73°F) when fully open, although 24°C (75°F) was "agreed on." The flow rates for the bathroom and the house connection room aren’t very different. This doesn’t make sense to me unless it is assumed that thermostatic radiator valves are installed. But isn’t the goal of the heating load calculation and hydraulic balancing exactly to avoid relying on these? I should mention that the heating load calculation and hydraulic balancing were done only afterwards, as we switched to a KfW 55 standard during construction. The construction company and their heating installer used this program for the first time and thus "forgot" these steps initially. We had to hire an external company to do the calculations, and soon the heating installer will come to adjust the hydraulic balancing. I am skeptical whether these values make any practical sense.
1. At least with Stiebel Eltron, this is not very precise / tends to be optimistic. I assume it is similar with others.
4. You are ignoring the installation distances. 2 liters per minute through 10 meters (33 feet) of pipe compared to 1 liter per minute through 100 meters (328 feet) of pipe. Where is more thermal energy transferred? (With the same delta T)
4. You are ignoring the installation distances. 2 liters per minute through 10 meters (33 feet) of pipe compared to 1 liter per minute through 100 meters (328 feet) of pipe. Where is more thermal energy transferred? (With the same delta T)
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RotorMotor12 Nov 2021 10:45grericht schrieb:
Are the specifications for the heat output of heat pumps usually standardized and calibrated? Can these be trusted, or are the values (possibly even deliberately) exaggerated? Are these figures calculated and/or measured? The "heat quantity" or output can be calculated based on the flow rate and the temperature difference between the supply and return temperatures.
Deviations can occur depending on the water properties, so if additives are present, the value would need to be adjusted, but I believe no one does this.
Whether anything extra is added on top of that, I obviously can’t answer!
grericht schrieb:
Does it make sense to heat rooms that should be kept as cool as possible but are adjacent to warm rooms, for example the bedroom? For me, it doesn’t make sense because the heat input from 2 people * 8h/day plus heat exchange from the neighboring rooms is already too high. What do you mean by "make sense"? Consumption or comfort?
Overall, the heat pump will probably consume less energy if all rooms are heated.
As always, turn off the bypass valve (ERR), ensure flow everywhere → lower supply temperature, lower consumption.
However, the temperature differences will be smaller there, which some people find uncomfortable (for example, in the bedroom).
grericht schrieb:
Does it make sense to heat rooms that are not used but could serve as heat storage (e.g. cellar rooms), and if so, what temperature/heat input? With the door open, it’s hardly possible to keep these below 20°C (68°F) since other rooms in the cellar are occupied. They already benefit from the neighboring rooms without their own heat input. And with the door closed, they have less storage benefit?! Here I would suspect that it might make sense to heat these rooms slightly, while lowering heat in adjacent rooms to keep the same temperature everywhere and thus increase the storage volume? Why consider them as storage? The answer is basically the same as above.
Of course, this only makes sense if the cellar is well insulated!
grericht schrieb:
But isn’t this exactly the goal of a heating load calculation or a hydraulic balancing, so that you could dispense with this approach? Yes.
At first, the calculation sounds a bit odd, but you would need to look at it in more detail to assess it more precisely.
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