ᐅ Planning/Architect, possible execution by a prefab home supplier
Created on: 28 May 2013 08:15
M
moser7
Good morning!
We can now make our dream of owning a single-family house come true. It was almost impossible to find a nice plot here, but we finally succeeded.
We want to start the actual construction next spring and are currently gathering ideas. Like many others, we are facing the decision between a solid construction (e.g., T8) with individual contracts or a high-quality timber house builder offering a turnkey solution. To estimate the costs for solid construction, we basically need at least a preliminary design. There are many construction companies in our area, but hardly any offer turnkey solutions. Therefore, to really compare the offers, the same basis must be sent to all trades for solid construction and to the turnkey builders.
Now the question: An architect doesn’t plan these things for free. Do you have any experience whether providers like Sonnleitner, Adlerhaus, Gruber Naturholzhaus, i.e., turnkey builders, offer a meaningful discount if the planning is completely done by an external architect? Usually, the employees of the companies handle all planning themselves. If that is no longer the case, is this really reflected in the price? Of course, these plans still need to be processed for production.
It would be somewhat frustrating to choose a turnkey timber house builder and spend an additional 20,000 EUR on an architect that in the end wasn’t even necessary.
Context:
Single-family house, 1.5 or 2 stories
Approx. 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft)
Living and dining area
Expected construction cost including basement but excluding garden/exterior approx. 360,000 EUR (Rainwater retention required, soil replacement on building site due to peat layer)
Regards
Benjamin
We can now make our dream of owning a single-family house come true. It was almost impossible to find a nice plot here, but we finally succeeded.
We want to start the actual construction next spring and are currently gathering ideas. Like many others, we are facing the decision between a solid construction (e.g., T8) with individual contracts or a high-quality timber house builder offering a turnkey solution. To estimate the costs for solid construction, we basically need at least a preliminary design. There are many construction companies in our area, but hardly any offer turnkey solutions. Therefore, to really compare the offers, the same basis must be sent to all trades for solid construction and to the turnkey builders.
Now the question: An architect doesn’t plan these things for free. Do you have any experience whether providers like Sonnleitner, Adlerhaus, Gruber Naturholzhaus, i.e., turnkey builders, offer a meaningful discount if the planning is completely done by an external architect? Usually, the employees of the companies handle all planning themselves. If that is no longer the case, is this really reflected in the price? Of course, these plans still need to be processed for production.
It would be somewhat frustrating to choose a turnkey timber house builder and spend an additional 20,000 EUR on an architect that in the end wasn’t even necessary.
Context:
Single-family house, 1.5 or 2 stories
Approx. 150 sqm (1,615 sq ft)
Living and dining area
Expected construction cost including basement but excluding garden/exterior approx. 360,000 EUR (Rainwater retention required, soil replacement on building site due to peat layer)
Regards
Benjamin
Hello Moser7,
No one but the specific prefab home provider can really answer that for you. However, I find it hard to believe that you can save much. The provider also has a certain amount of planning effort for your house, for example during phases 1-3. Since planning costs are rarely itemized separately by most providers, these costs are included in the individual positions. And if the provider agrees to credit you for planning already done, it will certainly not be at the same level as what you invested with other planners.
But if you want to build a timber frame house and don’t want to rely on prefab home providers with their standard designs, you could also have a timber house designed by an architect. In that case, you should look for an architect who has experience with building such houses (references). Because the expertise of prefab home providers with timber frame houses is undeniable. The same applies to the construction: not every carpenter can build a durable, high-quality house, as the challenges with sealing, vapor barriers, and other details are quite complex.
No one but the specific prefab home provider can really answer that for you. However, I find it hard to believe that you can save much. The provider also has a certain amount of planning effort for your house, for example during phases 1-3. Since planning costs are rarely itemized separately by most providers, these costs are included in the individual positions. And if the provider agrees to credit you for planning already done, it will certainly not be at the same level as what you invested with other planners.
But if you want to build a timber frame house and don’t want to rely on prefab home providers with their standard designs, you could also have a timber house designed by an architect. In that case, you should look for an architect who has experience with building such houses (references). Because the expertise of prefab home providers with timber frame houses is undeniable. The same applies to the construction: not every carpenter can build a durable, high-quality house, as the challenges with sealing, vapor barriers, and other details are quite complex.
B
Bauexperte28 May 2013 13:11Hello Benjamin,
No!
Every builder has their own architects or freelancers they work with. Their architectural plans are only useful for the building permit if, by chance, they use the same software as the architect who prepared them, which is rarely the case. The execution plans are based on these initial documents. If different software was used, the “new” architect has to transfer everything into the respective builder’s system.
Furthermore, the architect’s services are included in a mixed cost calculation, so these costs are considered by every builder to keep their accounting accurate!
You only “save” architect fees if you manage the trades yourself afterwards. Only then will additional costs from “your” architect arise, because they have to prepare the execution plans. You need these to create the bill of quantities (BOQ), which again involves costs.
One more note for “Der Da” –
It is a common claim by builders that the structural calculations must be redone with an “open” or “free” design. With all due respect, that is nonsense, because even for standard houses, the structural engineering is done only after the soil report is provided. There can only be a basic structural design beforehand, since not every ground condition leads to the same structural requirements!
Regards, Bauexperte
moser7 schrieb:
It’s clear what an architect does. The real question was whether I save money by hiring an architect beforehand to handle phases 1–3 or 1–5 if I then contract a turnkey homebuilder for a complete build.
No!
Every builder has their own architects or freelancers they work with. Their architectural plans are only useful for the building permit if, by chance, they use the same software as the architect who prepared them, which is rarely the case. The execution plans are based on these initial documents. If different software was used, the “new” architect has to transfer everything into the respective builder’s system.
Furthermore, the architect’s services are included in a mixed cost calculation, so these costs are considered by every builder to keep their accounting accurate!
You only “save” architect fees if you manage the trades yourself afterwards. Only then will additional costs from “your” architect arise, because they have to prepare the execution plans. You need these to create the bill of quantities (BOQ), which again involves costs.
One more note for “Der Da” –
It is a common claim by builders that the structural calculations must be redone with an “open” or “free” design. With all due respect, that is nonsense, because even for standard houses, the structural engineering is done only after the soil report is provided. There can only be a basic structural design beforehand, since not every ground condition leads to the same structural requirements!
Regards, Bauexperte
Thank you, construction expert,
then there is still the option of a shell house in the timber house segment, which might make sense if the architectural planning is done simultaneously and the remaining finishing trades are contracted separately.
However, that also doesn’t seem very cost-effective to me. Hmm.
It would have been nicer to have one planning phase and then compare solid construction with timber, but now I have to decide: architect = solid construction, timber = architectural fees “thrown out the window.”
Best regards,
Benjamin
then there is still the option of a shell house in the timber house segment, which might make sense if the architectural planning is done simultaneously and the remaining finishing trades are contracted separately.
However, that also doesn’t seem very cost-effective to me. Hmm.
It would have been nicer to have one planning phase and then compare solid construction with timber, but now I have to decide: architect = solid construction, timber = architectural fees “thrown out the window.”
Best regards,
Benjamin
B
Bauexperte28 May 2013 13:53Hello Benjamin
Regards, Bauexperte
moser7 schrieb:Then you have the wrong mindset. How can something be called "money thrown out the window" if it first provided you with the right plans for you?
... wood = architect’s fee "thrown out the window."
Regards, Bauexperte
Bauexperte schrieb:
Hello Benjamin,
Then your way of thinking is wrong. How can something be called "money thrown away" if it first provided you with the right plans for you?
Regards, BauexperteHello Bauexperte,
because the timber house builder included this service in his overall bill of quantities prices and therefore does not offer me any discount on the house when I show up with my own plans.
That means he would have created the plans for me free of charge, provided I commit to one supplier during this design phase and follow through with it.
However, this only applies to timber house builders who allow completely custom designs; anything else is out of the question for me anyway.
Best regards,
Benjamin
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