ᐅ Conversion of a Multi-Generation House – Uneasy Experience with General Contractor
Created on: 29 Jan 2022 22:31
C
cryptoflamC
cryptoflam29 Jan 2022 22:31Hello everyone,
My wife and I, together with her mother, have decided to convert the existing single-family house into a multi-generational home. Unfortunately, the house is not large enough to accommodate two households, and additionally, the roof is not insulated yet. Besides an extension, there is also renovation work needed.
Below, I will summarize our experience with our general contractor (GC), as we are currently very uncertain about how to proceed.
In short: Are we being too naive, or do we simply have the wrong expectations?
______
In January 2021, based on a recommendation, we got in touch with a GC who inspected the house with us and discussed our ideas. Afterwards, he gave us an offer for the planning phase, which we started with his wife as the architect.
This was the first time we asked for a rough cost estimate for the entire project. Our GC replied that it was difficult for him to give a price without plans but promised to provide one before submitting the building permit / planning permission application.
Planning
Since the planned extension requires approval, we decided with the architect to create a preliminary design to use as a basis for a building inquiry at our local planning authority.
Our planning authority now generally rejects preliminary building inquiries and only responds to specific applications. So basically, we have to plan and hope... (2 drafts were basically wasted).
The planning phase has been slow because the architect keeps forgetting agreements, and we have to remind her of previous points during meetings. Additionally, the first two plans did not include access to the existing basement, which caused problems in the designs.
Between June and December, we worked with her on four different drafts.
We have come to realize that we probably focused too much on details.
Now, one year later, we have a design we are about 90% satisfied with. In hindsight, it might have been better to move forward earlier with a 70% solution...
Then came the big day for the rough cost estimate. We sat down with our GC and discussed the desired quality levels, etc.
Yesterday, we received an email from the GC stating that his brother (who runs the construction company) cannot prepare the cost calculation without structural engineering and formwork/reinforcement plans. (Cost for these is 2,500 Euros).
Now we are a bit shocked and at a loss:
We have already spent nearly 11,000 Euros on the architect’s plans without knowing whether the entire renovation project is financially feasible for us.
The existing plans have not been checked by a structural engineer, nor is it clear if the planned extension will even be approved in its current form.
Our GC still refuses to provide a cost estimate, citing the lack of structural engineering as the reason.
(Surveyors, energy consultants, and others are also still missing, of course.)
We are currently concerned that this might be getting out of hand and are feeling uneasy about the whole situation.
I would appreciate any advice.
My main questions:
Is all of this normal? Are we simply inexperienced?
Should we seek a second opinion or look for another GC, etc.?
Thank you!
My wife and I, together with her mother, have decided to convert the existing single-family house into a multi-generational home. Unfortunately, the house is not large enough to accommodate two households, and additionally, the roof is not insulated yet. Besides an extension, there is also renovation work needed.
Below, I will summarize our experience with our general contractor (GC), as we are currently very uncertain about how to proceed.
In short: Are we being too naive, or do we simply have the wrong expectations?
______
In January 2021, based on a recommendation, we got in touch with a GC who inspected the house with us and discussed our ideas. Afterwards, he gave us an offer for the planning phase, which we started with his wife as the architect.
This was the first time we asked for a rough cost estimate for the entire project. Our GC replied that it was difficult for him to give a price without plans but promised to provide one before submitting the building permit / planning permission application.
Planning
Since the planned extension requires approval, we decided with the architect to create a preliminary design to use as a basis for a building inquiry at our local planning authority.
Our planning authority now generally rejects preliminary building inquiries and only responds to specific applications. So basically, we have to plan and hope... (2 drafts were basically wasted).
The planning phase has been slow because the architect keeps forgetting agreements, and we have to remind her of previous points during meetings. Additionally, the first two plans did not include access to the existing basement, which caused problems in the designs.
Between June and December, we worked with her on four different drafts.
We have come to realize that we probably focused too much on details.
Now, one year later, we have a design we are about 90% satisfied with. In hindsight, it might have been better to move forward earlier with a 70% solution...
Then came the big day for the rough cost estimate. We sat down with our GC and discussed the desired quality levels, etc.
Yesterday, we received an email from the GC stating that his brother (who runs the construction company) cannot prepare the cost calculation without structural engineering and formwork/reinforcement plans. (Cost for these is 2,500 Euros).
Now we are a bit shocked and at a loss:
We have already spent nearly 11,000 Euros on the architect’s plans without knowing whether the entire renovation project is financially feasible for us.
The existing plans have not been checked by a structural engineer, nor is it clear if the planned extension will even be approved in its current form.
Our GC still refuses to provide a cost estimate, citing the lack of structural engineering as the reason.
(Surveyors, energy consultants, and others are also still missing, of course.)
We are currently concerned that this might be getting out of hand and are feeling uneasy about the whole situation.
I would appreciate any advice.
My main questions:
Is all of this normal? Are we simply inexperienced?
Should we seek a second opinion or look for another GC, etc.?
Thank you!
Well, first of all, congratulations on the textbook disaster. Having a general contractor’s partner as an aimless and unplanned drafter like this isn’t something you see every day. Spending eleven thousand on four designs “takes some beating” ;-)
Of course, they really dislike the “Columbo tactic” there. It’s considered unprofessional and excessively exhausting for everyone involved.
At least, with all this back-and-forth and sidestepping in the planning, you should have enough material to at least show the existing floor plan here, so that it’s at all possible to make a qualified statement about what might be feasible. Please upload the following as individual images, not as a poster or preferably not as a PDF: all existing floor plans and one section, as well as at least the most recent draft of the renovation.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
cryptoflam schrieb:
Our building authority now generally rejects preliminary building inquiries and only responds to specific requests. So, it means planning and hoping... (2 drafts down the drain)
Of course, they really dislike the “Columbo tactic” there. It’s considered unprofessional and excessively exhausting for everyone involved.
At least, with all this back-and-forth and sidestepping in the planning, you should have enough material to at least show the existing floor plan here, so that it’s at all possible to make a qualified statement about what might be feasible. Please upload the following as individual images, not as a poster or preferably not as a PDF: all existing floor plans and one section, as well as at least the most recent draft of the renovation.
https://www.instagram.com/11antgmxde/
https://www.linkedin.com/company/bauen-jetzt/
I don’t think that is normal.
The services you describe—even if not as extensive—up to the building notification stage were partially provided by our general contractor before we signed the contract, and definitely before we made any partial payment. If I remember correctly, the first payment including planning services was only due after pouring the foundation slab.
I know it works differently with independent architects, but $11,000 without any substantial deliverables seems VERY high to me. We received a fairly reliable overall project cost estimate very early in the planning stage, long before we signed with the general contractor.
The services you describe—even if not as extensive—up to the building notification stage were partially provided by our general contractor before we signed the contract, and definitely before we made any partial payment. If I remember correctly, the first payment including planning services was only due after pouring the foundation slab.
I know it works differently with independent architects, but $11,000 without any substantial deliverables seems VERY high to me. We received a fairly reliable overall project cost estimate very early in the planning stage, long before we signed with the general contractor.
11ant schrieb:
Having a general contractor’s spouse as a directionless and planless draftsman is not something you see every day. I’ve also built a house under similar circumstances – it really worked out very well. But that was a different time, it seems to me...
On the topic: Make it clear to the general contractor that without at least a reasonably reliable cost ESTIMATE (it doesn’t have to be calculated down to the last cent at this stage), the process ends here. Although I would reconsider anyway, because nothing is worse than architects who already overlook significant details at the start. How is that supposed to work out later?
H
HilfeHilfe30 Jan 2022 10:15Betting on one option for far too long.
Didn’t you ever consider contacting a different general contractor?
Didn’t you ever consider contacting a different general contractor?
C
cryptoflam30 Jan 2022 11:33Good morning everyone,
thank you for your many responses!
At least it reassures me that we are not alone with our feelings, even though the situation is, of course, rather unpleasant.
As far as I know, my mother-in-law doesn’t have any current as-built plans. The best we have are the plans from the 1989 building permit application, which was never implemented. I have attached these, but I am also asking around in parallel.
Regarding the plan status,
on the 1st floor unfortunately some walls that need to be demolished (and thereby supported) for the kitchen are missing. I have manually added these so you can better visualize it.
(I have to split the plans, unfortunately I cannot attach more than 10 files.)
thank you for your many responses!
At least it reassures me that we are not alone with our feelings, even though the situation is, of course, rather unpleasant.
11ant schrieb:
Well, first of all, congratulations on a textbook disaster. Not every day you have a general contractor’s partner acting as a clueless drafter without a clear plan. To spend eleven thousand in four designs, “someone would have to copy that first” ;-)
Sure, the Columbo tactic is not appreciated there at all. It is unprofessional and exhausting for everyone involved.
At least with all the mis-, roundabout, and off-the-mark planning, you should have enough material to at least show the as-built plan here, so that people can make a qualified assessment of what might be possible. Please upload the following—preferably as individual images, not huge posters, and preferably not as PDFs—all current as-built floor plans and a cross-section, as well as at least the latest renovation design.
As far as I know, my mother-in-law doesn’t have any current as-built plans. The best we have are the plans from the 1989 building permit application, which was never implemented. I have attached these, but I am also asking around in parallel.
Regarding the plan status,
on the 1st floor unfortunately some walls that need to be demolished (and thereby supported) for the kitchen are missing. I have manually added these so you can better visualize it.
(I have to split the plans, unfortunately I cannot attach more than 10 files.)
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