Hello everyone,
First of all, this concerns a good older friend of mine. He has a problem with an architect, and naturally, I’m interested because I am currently in the construction phase myself or at least just starting out.
I can only relay what he told me. He has a friend who has a friend who is an architect.
He was also planning a new build but had to pause the project for personal reasons.
The architect was consulted. The plan was the design, and at first, since I was referred to you by a friend, I ask you for a "good price" (which is reasonable).
He was offered a fee of xyz for the design, and both parties agreed on it.
A short time later, the architect allegedly said, "If I do the design, it will be without my signature; I will complete everything, and you have to get approval/signature from another architect."
My friend was unsure at first but eventually agreed “verbally.”
After the preliminary design was sent to him, he was asked for a deposit. A deposit of about 37% of the agreed sum was paid.
The architect reportedly told him that the design was 75% complete and that he had spent around 50 hours working on it.
For example, the quantities (I’m not familiar with this) were still missing, so the structural builders could not use the drawings because much was missing for costing purposes.
It all became too much for my friend:
- The deposit of about 37% was supposed to be paid in cash. The architect was determined to avoid a bank transfer. When the money was handed over, my friend’s cousin was also present. No receipt was issued; when asked why he didn’t receive one, the answer was, "It’s a friendship price and was planned that way"... he got a bad feeling (he had merely asked for a "good price").
- Then there was the issue with the "signature," which was probably naive on his part.
- Although this is not really a reason, the exterior renderings of the building looked completely off, but of course, that is subjective.
Result: He wanted to end the cooperation immediately.
The architect was informed about this.
At first, there was no response from the architect. Then a few days later, he replied saying, "Since the design is almost finished, he would still like to be paid," leaving it up to my friend to decide how much.
My friend did not respond. Eventually, the architect sent another request and added, "If no counteroffer is made, an invoice will be issued according to the HOAI."
The cousin can confirm that the architect wanted the money in cash and about the "signature" statement.
This is probably not the first case like this. There have been similar cases where such agreements were considered "invalid" or "void."
He is really a good friend of mine (not very skilled with computers), has no legal expenses insurance, and I suggested that I ask here in case someone is legally knowledgeable about the matter:
Can the architect under such circumstances issue an invoice based on the HOAI later on? Is it even legal for him to act this way? (I believe this is called an "agreement without invoice" in legal terms).
Thank you in advance!
PS: Communication was also via email/messages. The conversations are still available.
First of all, this concerns a good older friend of mine. He has a problem with an architect, and naturally, I’m interested because I am currently in the construction phase myself or at least just starting out.
I can only relay what he told me. He has a friend who has a friend who is an architect.
He was also planning a new build but had to pause the project for personal reasons.
The architect was consulted. The plan was the design, and at first, since I was referred to you by a friend, I ask you for a "good price" (which is reasonable).
He was offered a fee of xyz for the design, and both parties agreed on it.
A short time later, the architect allegedly said, "If I do the design, it will be without my signature; I will complete everything, and you have to get approval/signature from another architect."
My friend was unsure at first but eventually agreed “verbally.”
After the preliminary design was sent to him, he was asked for a deposit. A deposit of about 37% of the agreed sum was paid.
The architect reportedly told him that the design was 75% complete and that he had spent around 50 hours working on it.
For example, the quantities (I’m not familiar with this) were still missing, so the structural builders could not use the drawings because much was missing for costing purposes.
It all became too much for my friend:
- The deposit of about 37% was supposed to be paid in cash. The architect was determined to avoid a bank transfer. When the money was handed over, my friend’s cousin was also present. No receipt was issued; when asked why he didn’t receive one, the answer was, "It’s a friendship price and was planned that way"... he got a bad feeling (he had merely asked for a "good price").
- Then there was the issue with the "signature," which was probably naive on his part.
- Although this is not really a reason, the exterior renderings of the building looked completely off, but of course, that is subjective.
Result: He wanted to end the cooperation immediately.
The architect was informed about this.
At first, there was no response from the architect. Then a few days later, he replied saying, "Since the design is almost finished, he would still like to be paid," leaving it up to my friend to decide how much.
My friend did not respond. Eventually, the architect sent another request and added, "If no counteroffer is made, an invoice will be issued according to the HOAI."
The cousin can confirm that the architect wanted the money in cash and about the "signature" statement.
This is probably not the first case like this. There have been similar cases where such agreements were considered "invalid" or "void."
He is really a good friend of mine (not very skilled with computers), has no legal expenses insurance, and I suggested that I ask here in case someone is legally knowledgeable about the matter:
Can the architect under such circumstances issue an invoice based on the HOAI later on? Is it even legal for him to act this way? (I believe this is called an "agreement without invoice" in legal terms).
Thank you in advance!
PS: Communication was also via email/messages. The conversations are still available.
H
HilfeHilfe27 Nov 2018 19:28Legal questions can only be answered by a lawyer. But sorry, it’s rarely smart to hire an architect for planning and then expect that architect to sign off on plans created by someone else. The cost should be around 500€ (about $540) and that’s it.
C
Caspar202027 Nov 2018 19:49tumaa schrieb:
Can the architect issue an invoice retrospectively under such circumstances according to the HOAI? Is such action even legally possible? (I believe this is called a "no-invoice agreement" in legal terms)As a lawyer, this would be an interesting case with a potentially significant bill. Please send your friend there; with the limited information provided here, it doesn’t help anyone.
To begin with, contracts can also be made verbally. Regarding your last assumption, the appointed lawyer is the only appropriate contact, as this might involve criminal law matters...
Caspar2020 schrieb:
As a lawyer, that would be a straightforward case with a nice legal bill. Please send your friend there; with the shortened explanation here, no one is helped.
In advance: contracts can also be concluded orally. Regarding your last assumption, the appointed lawyer is the only proper point of contact, as this might potentially involve criminal law...Yes... I’m familiar with oral or implied contracts.
What do you mean by "nice legal bill," that the attorney fees will be high?
I also assume: either a joint solution or a lawyer; the former should be cheaper/faster.
Thanks!
H
HilfeHilfe28 Nov 2018 06:15tumaa schrieb:
can be closed, it came out again .....they have come to an agreement. How?
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