Hi!
We are building with a general contractor (GC) but separated out the electrical work because the GC’s electrician does not offer KNX systems.
So far, so good.
The GC site manager was unable to schedule a meeting with the electrician before the ceiling slab was poured on the ground floor to install conduits. Then, after a phone discussion between them, it was agreed that the electrician would simply drill through the slab into the Halox boxes. The site manager indicated that this would not be a problem.
However, the site manager has so far failed to provide the written approval requested by the electrician for the drilling process. The ceiling slab is scheduled to be poured tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, I only just found out from the electrician that the written approval has not yet been issued. He made it clear that he will not proceed with any drilling without such approval. Under these circumstances, I find it too risky to allow the concrete pouring to proceed tomorrow without written consent. Oral agreements with the electrician and me do not hold up legally.
Now my question:
How should drilling into Halox boxes through a concrete slab be viewed? Is this risky? Is it appropriate for the electrician to require written approval? I believe that is reasonable on his part.
How would you handle this? If they pour the concrete tomorrow and still do not provide approval, I will be the one to suffer later! I just emailed the GC again emphasizing that written approval must be granted before the start of concrete pouring and that otherwise, the pouring cannot proceed. Whether this will have any effect on a Sunday when work is supposed to start at 8 a.m. is another question. On the other hand, the structural contractor responsible for the pouring is not my contract partner, and legally I probably cannot stop him from starting work at 8 a.m. (contract for work and services). At least regarding legal issues such as possible claims for damages related to scheduled personnel, machinery, etc., I am not sure how this would play out.
Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to handle this?
In any case, I will have to get more involved in these processes, follow up much more, and obtain more timely written confirmations. It started out well, but now 2-3 issues have already come up... (among other things, we had a “situation” during the civil engineering works related to coordination and communication).
We are building with a general contractor (GC) but separated out the electrical work because the GC’s electrician does not offer KNX systems.
So far, so good.
The GC site manager was unable to schedule a meeting with the electrician before the ceiling slab was poured on the ground floor to install conduits. Then, after a phone discussion between them, it was agreed that the electrician would simply drill through the slab into the Halox boxes. The site manager indicated that this would not be a problem.
However, the site manager has so far failed to provide the written approval requested by the electrician for the drilling process. The ceiling slab is scheduled to be poured tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, I only just found out from the electrician that the written approval has not yet been issued. He made it clear that he will not proceed with any drilling without such approval. Under these circumstances, I find it too risky to allow the concrete pouring to proceed tomorrow without written consent. Oral agreements with the electrician and me do not hold up legally.
Now my question:
How should drilling into Halox boxes through a concrete slab be viewed? Is this risky? Is it appropriate for the electrician to require written approval? I believe that is reasonable on his part.
How would you handle this? If they pour the concrete tomorrow and still do not provide approval, I will be the one to suffer later! I just emailed the GC again emphasizing that written approval must be granted before the start of concrete pouring and that otherwise, the pouring cannot proceed. Whether this will have any effect on a Sunday when work is supposed to start at 8 a.m. is another question. On the other hand, the structural contractor responsible for the pouring is not my contract partner, and legally I probably cannot stop him from starting work at 8 a.m. (contract for work and services). At least regarding legal issues such as possible claims for damages related to scheduled personnel, machinery, etc., I am not sure how this would play out.
Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to handle this?
In any case, I will have to get more involved in these processes, follow up much more, and obtain more timely written confirmations. It started out well, but now 2-3 issues have already come up... (among other things, we had a “situation” during the civil engineering works related to coordination and communication).
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 19:30I’m caught in the middle here and so far, my thoughts have been with my electrician because I didn’t find it ideal at all to get an email at 3 p.m. saying that conduit installation can happen the next morning. What company can handle that and always have staff on call? I can’t imagine that’s how it’s planned.
This is going to get interesting. The general contractor (GC) won’t learn from this; they just don’t care. I’ll have the problem later because if the ceiling is poured, there’s no approval, and the electrician then refuses to drill, I’ll be left figuring out what to do.
It’s frustrating. But nothing can be changed; so hiring an electrician who installs a system you don’t even want just because they’re part of the GC’s package isn’t the solution either.
Okay, I’ve gathered some opinions that somewhat put my previous assessment into perspective. Thanks.
We specifically included that option before signing the contract. Otherwise, someone else would have built the house. But from the beginning, this was not an issue for the GC.
With the GC, we would have had to go with Loxone. And we didn’t want that.
This is going to get interesting. The general contractor (GC) won’t learn from this; they just don’t care. I’ll have the problem later because if the ceiling is poured, there’s no approval, and the electrician then refuses to drill, I’ll be left figuring out what to do.
It’s frustrating. But nothing can be changed; so hiring an electrician who installs a system you don’t even want just because they’re part of the GC’s package isn’t the solution either.
Okay, I’ve gathered some opinions that somewhat put my previous assessment into perspective. Thanks.
Alex85 schrieb:
Your GC will learn from this incident and refuse to remove the electrical installations for the next customer.
We specifically included that option before signing the contract. Otherwise, someone else would have built the house. But from the beginning, this was not an issue for the GC.
With the GC, we would have had to go with Loxone. And we didn’t want that.
The general contractor and their tradespeople are used to doing things differently and are stepping out of their usual approach for you. That can understandably lead to some friction.
Did your electrician also explain why they need approval for that? Others just drill through the concrete and don’t install conduit, only laying cables on top. Both methods are possible. Does your electrician really believe the ceiling above will collapse? Or are there ventilation ducts embedded in the concrete whose location must be known?
Did your electrician also explain why they need approval for that? Others just drill through the concrete and don’t install conduit, only laying cables on top. Both methods are possible. Does your electrician really believe the ceiling above will collapse? Or are there ventilation ducts embedded in the concrete whose location must be known?
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 19:45Alex85 schrieb:
(adsbygoogle = window.adsbygoogle || []).push({});
The general contractor and his tradespeople are used to doing things differently and are stepping out of their usual routine for you. That can understandably lead to friction. Regardless of how reasonable such an approval might be—I can’t really judge that—I think the electrician could at least have expected a reply to his email. He politely wrote that, as discussed over the phone, he plans to drill through the Halox boxes but requests a written approval for this. That’s something that can be discussed in detail. But simply ignoring it isn’t very professional.
From the beginning, I was satisfied with both companies and started with a good feeling. So far, things haven’t completely gone wrong, and I think it could have turned out much worse. It’s a shame that the communication breaks down at this point. I think it’s just a communication problem. The electrician suspects it might be because they’re upset about having to remove some electrical work...
Alex85 schrieb:
Did your electrician also say why he needed this approval?He only mentioned liability issues. I would have to check with him again for details. In any case, this is a well-established electrical specialist company, not some local handyman.
Alex85 schrieb:
Or are there ventilation ducts in the concrete whose location you need to know?Yes, the house will have a controlled mechanical ventilation system. I guess the electrician just wants to proceed with his part without having to study other trades unnecessarily; but I’m not exactly sure. Honestly, it doesn’t really matter to me. He requested the approval, and if you don’t want to give it to him, you would have to consult me. Then I would have had to insist that the two sides arrange a joint appointment for the ductwork, allowing at least half a day in advance. If that caused a delay of one or two days, so be it... As a layperson, I really don’t see a problem there.
On the other hand, it’s quite ridiculous that the ductwork didn’t happen at all due to the short notice. But that was over a week ago. Concrete was supposed to be poured a day after the notification. Yet, until now, no concrete has been poured! I wonder why there was no opportunity, after the delay became known, to contact me or the electrician again to choose the easier and more practical way forward. The delay was caused by missing Poroton bricks. The upper floor is supposed to be finished by the end of next week, but work hasn’t even started. On Saturday, there were still no Poroton blocks on site. I’m curious how this will go.
As I said, I think there are two sides to the story.
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 22:23I contacted the general contractor. You can’t reach anyone there on Sundays.
The whole situation is really surprising. I will find out tomorrow morning.
I suspect that they just gave a quick verbal confirmation, but now that they need to provide something in writing and take responsibility, they are reconsidering whether that was a good idea. That’s my assessment.
The whole situation is really surprising. I will find out tomorrow morning.
I suspect that they just gave a quick verbal confirmation, but now that they need to provide something in writing and take responsibility, they are reconsidering whether that was a good idea. That’s my assessment.
R.Hotzenplotz schrieb:
On the other hand, it’s really crazy that the piping wasn’t installed at all because of the short delivery time. But that was over a week ago. The plan was to pour concrete one day after the notification. However, concrete still hasn’t been poured to this day! I’m wondering why there wasn’t an option, after the delay became known, to get in touch with me or the electrician to choose the simpler and more practical solution. There was a delay because Poroton blocks were missing. The upper floor is supposed to be finished by the end of next week, but work hasn’t even started yet. On Saturday, there were still no Poroton blocks on site. I’m curious to see what happens.So, reading this, I have to wonder how flexible your electrician is. After the notification, there was another week of delay. So he didn’t find even one hour the whole week to nail in the cables and insists on having an approval. Seriously?
Similar topics