R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 12:05Hi!
We are building with a general contractor (GC) but separated out the electrical work because the GC’s electrician does not offer KNX systems.
So far, so good.
The GC site manager was unable to schedule a meeting with the electrician before the ceiling slab was poured on the ground floor to install conduits. Then, after a phone discussion between them, it was agreed that the electrician would simply drill through the slab into the Halox boxes. The site manager indicated that this would not be a problem.
However, the site manager has so far failed to provide the written approval requested by the electrician for the drilling process. The ceiling slab is scheduled to be poured tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, I only just found out from the electrician that the written approval has not yet been issued. He made it clear that he will not proceed with any drilling without such approval. Under these circumstances, I find it too risky to allow the concrete pouring to proceed tomorrow without written consent. Oral agreements with the electrician and me do not hold up legally.
Now my question:
How should drilling into Halox boxes through a concrete slab be viewed? Is this risky? Is it appropriate for the electrician to require written approval? I believe that is reasonable on his part.
How would you handle this? If they pour the concrete tomorrow and still do not provide approval, I will be the one to suffer later! I just emailed the GC again emphasizing that written approval must be granted before the start of concrete pouring and that otherwise, the pouring cannot proceed. Whether this will have any effect on a Sunday when work is supposed to start at 8 a.m. is another question. On the other hand, the structural contractor responsible for the pouring is not my contract partner, and legally I probably cannot stop him from starting work at 8 a.m. (contract for work and services). At least regarding legal issues such as possible claims for damages related to scheduled personnel, machinery, etc., I am not sure how this would play out.
Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to handle this?
In any case, I will have to get more involved in these processes, follow up much more, and obtain more timely written confirmations. It started out well, but now 2-3 issues have already come up... (among other things, we had a “situation” during the civil engineering works related to coordination and communication).
We are building with a general contractor (GC) but separated out the electrical work because the GC’s electrician does not offer KNX systems.
So far, so good.
The GC site manager was unable to schedule a meeting with the electrician before the ceiling slab was poured on the ground floor to install conduits. Then, after a phone discussion between them, it was agreed that the electrician would simply drill through the slab into the Halox boxes. The site manager indicated that this would not be a problem.
However, the site manager has so far failed to provide the written approval requested by the electrician for the drilling process. The ceiling slab is scheduled to be poured tomorrow morning. Unfortunately, I only just found out from the electrician that the written approval has not yet been issued. He made it clear that he will not proceed with any drilling without such approval. Under these circumstances, I find it too risky to allow the concrete pouring to proceed tomorrow without written consent. Oral agreements with the electrician and me do not hold up legally.
Now my question:
How should drilling into Halox boxes through a concrete slab be viewed? Is this risky? Is it appropriate for the electrician to require written approval? I believe that is reasonable on his part.
How would you handle this? If they pour the concrete tomorrow and still do not provide approval, I will be the one to suffer later! I just emailed the GC again emphasizing that written approval must be granted before the start of concrete pouring and that otherwise, the pouring cannot proceed. Whether this will have any effect on a Sunday when work is supposed to start at 8 a.m. is another question. On the other hand, the structural contractor responsible for the pouring is not my contract partner, and legally I probably cannot stop him from starting work at 8 a.m. (contract for work and services). At least regarding legal issues such as possible claims for damages related to scheduled personnel, machinery, etc., I am not sure how this would play out.
Does anyone have any ideas on the best way to handle this?
In any case, I will have to get more involved in these processes, follow up much more, and obtain more timely written confirmations. It started out well, but now 2-3 issues have already come up... (among other things, we had a “situation” during the civil engineering works related to coordination and communication).
Sorry, has the concrete already been poured or is it still going to be poured? I’m not quite following right now. If it hasn’t been poured yet, why does the electrician want to drill through the ceiling?
If it hasn’t been poured yet, he should simply place a Styrofoam block on the electrical boxes before pouring the concrete. That way, he doesn’t have to drill and already knows where the boxes are.
If the concrete is already poured, then he should just drill through the electrical boxes from below.
To be honest, I don’t really understand the electrician’s problem. A few holes in a reinforced concrete ceiling won’t cause a house to collapse, and unless he’s making 100mm (4 inch) core drills, it won’t really affect the ceiling’s structural integrity.
If it hasn’t been poured yet, he should simply place a Styrofoam block on the electrical boxes before pouring the concrete. That way, he doesn’t have to drill and already knows where the boxes are.
If the concrete is already poured, then he should just drill through the electrical boxes from below.
To be honest, I don’t really understand the electrician’s problem. A few holes in a reinforced concrete ceiling won’t cause a house to collapse, and unless he’s making 100mm (4 inch) core drills, it won’t really affect the ceiling’s structural integrity.
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 16:07Tom1607 schrieb:
Sorry, but has the concrete already been poured, or will it be poured later?No, I wrote that it is supposed to happen early tomorrow morning.
Tom1607 schrieb:
If it’s not poured yet, why does the electrician want to drill through the ceiling??He doesn’t want to. Rather, this is a coordination issue. The general contractor’s site manager recently tried to schedule the electrician to run cables before the concrete was poured, giving only half a day’s notice. He couldn’t arrange that on such short notice, which I understand—what kind of operation would have workers on call all the time? That requires some planning. I don’t blame the electrician, more the general contractor. In any case, they agreed by phone that he would drill through the ceiling if timing didn’t allow otherwise. He is still willing to do that. The problem is, he has not received the written approval from the general contractor that he requested by email 10 days ago. I just found out about that today. Also, he says that for liability reasons he will not drill into the concrete ceiling without that approval.
I should add that the concrete pouring date has been postponed several times. It’s all the more frustrating that the general contractor did not communicate clearly with the electrician or give him the chance to do the work beforehand as originally planned. But that’s now history, and I have to make decisions based on the current situation.
Tom1607 schrieb:
To be honest, I don’t see what the electrician’s problem is right now. A few holes in a reinforced concrete ceiling haven’t brought down any houses, and as long as he’s not doing 100mm (4 inches) core drills, it doesn’t really affect the ceiling’s structural integrity.He says he needs approval for liability reasons and won’t drill otherwise. I can understand that. The general contractors seem to have their own electricians ready to jump in at any time, but some have difficulty with the required notice and coordination effort when working with external tradespeople. I really don’t blame the electrician. He’s always very committed, responds quickly, and coordinates everything in consultation with me… I really can’t say anything bad about him.
The site manager did suggest he drill through. That’s no problem, but he just wants it in writing. Otherwise, the general contractor could have responded within the last 10 days and let us know if such approval would not be granted. Very frustrating.
I still don’t understand the problem. Why does he need approval? What is he supposed to be liable for? The Halox box sticks out at least 5-8cm (2-3 inches) above the precast concrete slab. He can simply attach a 5x5cm (2x2 inches) Styrodur cube on top, so he doesn’t have to drill and knows exactly where the box is. The structural integrity of the slab isn’t affected because there’s only a bit of concrete above the Halox box, so where exactly is the problem with drilling a hole there?
And if he doesn’t want to do that, he can drill a hole into the Halox box, either on top or on the side, and insert an empty conduit pipe that extends 10cm (4 inches) above the finished concrete slab. Then they can cast the conduit pipe into the slab, and that’s it. He can easily do this tomorrow morning before they pour the concrete—it only takes about fifteen minutes.
And if he doesn’t want to do that, he can drill a hole into the Halox box, either on top or on the side, and insert an empty conduit pipe that extends 10cm (4 inches) above the finished concrete slab. Then they can cast the conduit pipe into the slab, and that’s it. He can easily do this tomorrow morning before they pour the concrete—it only takes about fifteen minutes.
R
R.Hotzenplotz6 May 2018 17:53Tom1607 schrieb:
and he can still do that tomorrow morning before they pour the concrete; it only takes about fifteen minutes....The problem is the time factor. He cannot come tomorrow morning.
Approval to drill through the ceiling. Is the electrician bored? Does he also need a note to pick his nose?
No offense, installing electricity through the ceiling by drilling is completely normal. There is nothing special about it. If conduit routing doesn’t work, then this is the alternative.
Your general contractor will learn from this incident and refuse to remove the electrical installation for the next client.
No offense, installing electricity through the ceiling by drilling is completely normal. There is nothing special about it. If conduit routing doesn’t work, then this is the alternative.
Your general contractor will learn from this incident and refuse to remove the electrical installation for the next client.
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