Hello,
We completed our city villa at the end of October and have moved in. Quite quickly, it became clear that in the ground floor the hot water takes a very long time to arrive in the kitchen and guest bathroom. According to the planning documents, it should not take more than 3 seconds for the hot water to come out. It was officially measured, and it takes 25 seconds and 3.7 liters (about 1 gallon) in the kitchen before hot water arrives. The cause is the missing looped circulation pipe. The plumber admits his mistake and has now asked us whether we want this defect fixed or prefer a financial compensation instead.
What needs to be done:
The pipe in the hallway must be exposed and about 1.5 meters (5 feet) newly installed through a wall toward the utility room. The tiles will have to be broken on parts of the utility room and hallway floors; the screed (concrete subfloor) will likely have to be removed in these areas as well. Then a new pipe will be laid so that the current overly long pipe will be integrated into the hot water circulation system on the upper floor. Afterwards, everything must be restored to its original state. We have some leftover tiles, which we would use, and then ask him to order a new batch (to avoid color differences...).
This does not sound simple or cheap to me. Instead, he also offers money. What do you think would be appropriate for this? He said he would calculate the extra consumption over 20 years. But what about the loss of value of the property? This is a defect, and we have to disclose it when selling (since we are aware of it…). It's not causing major problems; having hot water in the kitchen is nice, but thanks to induction cooking, it heats up quickly anyway 🙂 And in the guest bathroom, well, you can just run the tap for 30 seconds before visitors arrive, and then it works…
How much money do you think would be reasonable? And yes, I know it’s easy for an outsider to say “definitely have it fixed.”
We completed our city villa at the end of October and have moved in. Quite quickly, it became clear that in the ground floor the hot water takes a very long time to arrive in the kitchen and guest bathroom. According to the planning documents, it should not take more than 3 seconds for the hot water to come out. It was officially measured, and it takes 25 seconds and 3.7 liters (about 1 gallon) in the kitchen before hot water arrives. The cause is the missing looped circulation pipe. The plumber admits his mistake and has now asked us whether we want this defect fixed or prefer a financial compensation instead.
What needs to be done:
The pipe in the hallway must be exposed and about 1.5 meters (5 feet) newly installed through a wall toward the utility room. The tiles will have to be broken on parts of the utility room and hallway floors; the screed (concrete subfloor) will likely have to be removed in these areas as well. Then a new pipe will be laid so that the current overly long pipe will be integrated into the hot water circulation system on the upper floor. Afterwards, everything must be restored to its original state. We have some leftover tiles, which we would use, and then ask him to order a new batch (to avoid color differences...).
This does not sound simple or cheap to me. Instead, he also offers money. What do you think would be appropriate for this? He said he would calculate the extra consumption over 20 years. But what about the loss of value of the property? This is a defect, and we have to disclose it when selling (since we are aware of it…). It's not causing major problems; having hot water in the kitchen is nice, but thanks to induction cooking, it heats up quickly anyway 🙂 And in the guest bathroom, well, you can just run the tap for 30 seconds before visitors arrive, and then it works…
How much money do you think would be reasonable? And yes, I know it’s easy for an outsider to say “definitely have it fixed.”
Malli schrieb:
Therefore, my suggestion regarding a hotel was not meant as compensation, but as a necessity if the house does not have a side entrance.
I find the jab at my profession completely unnecessary at this point, especially coming from a moderator.Everyone makes mistakes, no matter the profession. It’s simply human. However, I don’t understand why one profession should be singled out while others can make errors, often without any consequences. I could give several examples of medical errors within my close family and friends that were never compensated, but that would be off topic here.
I also don’t understand why someone would “freak out” over an admitted mistake, nor why a fully inclusive hotel is absolutely required instead of a holiday rental, provided the house is genuinely uninhabitable during that time.
So, of course, we were somewhat frustrated, especially due to the poor excuses from the plumber claiming this was normal, etc. Only after I was able to directly prove to the construction company using the planning documents that there was indeed a serious issue did they agree to take action. The plan was for a ring main, so integrating the circulation would have been easy (for whatever reason, they didn’t do it that way initially...). They simply cut out a section of pipe, which now has to be replaced.
The house is still livable, of course. They’re not tearing up the entire hallway. I expect about 4-5 tiles will be removed (laid across the usual direction), so you can even step over the gap. After work, they’ll cover it with a board. It shouldn’t take long anyway. With properly coordinated trades, it should be done in 2-3 days.
During the on-site visit, we will also discuss whether it might be possible to run the pipe back to the utility room through the pre-wall installation in the guest bathroom. Then only one wall tile in the guest bathroom would need to be removed, and the screed would stay intact. We would core drill once through the wall. At the end, the pre-wall installation must be restored plus one tile replaced, and that’s it.
Attached is a picture showing how the plumber admitted to installing it. The thicker line indicates a larger pipe diameter, the thinner line is probably 12x1 pipe. If I’m not mistaken, they should all be copper pipes.
The house is still livable, of course. They’re not tearing up the entire hallway. I expect about 4-5 tiles will be removed (laid across the usual direction), so you can even step over the gap. After work, they’ll cover it with a board. It shouldn’t take long anyway. With properly coordinated trades, it should be done in 2-3 days.
During the on-site visit, we will also discuss whether it might be possible to run the pipe back to the utility room through the pre-wall installation in the guest bathroom. Then only one wall tile in the guest bathroom would need to be removed, and the screed would stay intact. We would core drill once through the wall. At the end, the pre-wall installation must be restored plus one tile replaced, and that’s it.
Attached is a picture showing how the plumber admitted to installing it. The thicker line indicates a larger pipe diameter, the thinner line is probably 12x1 pipe. If I’m not mistaken, they should all be copper pipes.
Hello
In this case, I would suggest rerouting the domestic hot water line along the shortest path, which would be about 7 m (23 feet) to the kitchen and 2 m (6.5 feet) to the bathroom, without circulation. It seems like someone didn’t want to make the three drill holes required or perhaps lost track of the plan.
You have already mentioned the practical solution: running the line from the guest bathroom water heater through the wall into the utility room. That’s not really a problem. The approximately 4 m (13 feet) pipe to the kitchen sink would then be a branch line without circulation. That works fine.
Olli
In this case, I would suggest rerouting the domestic hot water line along the shortest path, which would be about 7 m (23 feet) to the kitchen and 2 m (6.5 feet) to the bathroom, without circulation. It seems like someone didn’t want to make the three drill holes required or perhaps lost track of the plan.
You have already mentioned the practical solution: running the line from the guest bathroom water heater through the wall into the utility room. That’s not really a problem. The approximately 4 m (13 feet) pipe to the kitchen sink would then be a branch line without circulation. That works fine.
Olli
H
HilfeHilfe18 Mar 2016 07:19I would have it done. Waiting 20-30 years for the warmth would always annoy me, making me wonder why I didn’t have it done earlier. That’s just my personal opinion.
Yes, it’s inconvenient to have contractors in the house again for rework. But is it really not worth it to you, instead of being frustrated for years?
We’ve now been without a couch for one week because the furniture store didn’t deliver. At first, my wife made a big deal about where we should sit, then I showed her idomeni and asked if mud would be better. Now it’s actually kind of fun just lounging on cushions on the floor.
Yes, it’s inconvenient to have contractors in the house again for rework. But is it really not worth it to you, instead of being frustrated for years?
We’ve now been without a couch for one week because the furniture store didn’t deliver. At first, my wife made a big deal about where we should sit, then I showed her idomeni and asked if mud would be better. Now it’s actually kind of fun just lounging on cushions on the floor.
Oh, I see….
Of course, just have it done.
The plumber arrives at eight in the morning, exposes the pipe, drills through the wall, and runs the pipe through it. The tiler shows up at eleven and starts their work while the pump is installed and pipes are laid in the utility room.
If the builder wants, they can go for a coffee or visit the doctor in the meantime.
No need for a hotel stay here 😉. The coffee will be on me.
Olli
Of course, just have it done.
The plumber arrives at eight in the morning, exposes the pipe, drills through the wall, and runs the pipe through it. The tiler shows up at eleven and starts their work while the pump is installed and pipes are laid in the utility room.
If the builder wants, they can go for a coffee or visit the doctor in the meantime.
No need for a hotel stay here 😉. The coffee will be on me.
Olli
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